Discourage farming new players

Hopefully the Combined Arms Update will destroy the A2G and HE infantry farming, allowing new players to focus only on the infantry play.

Certain players are so "good" that they are frankly suspicious, allow me to share:

Two players held a point for 3 out of 4 minutes against 15 TR, alone, they were killing everyone with straight headshots and I was the one to kill them because I listened out for their reload and overheat, breached and still barely killed them in time. We stopped the cap but they had over 20 kills each.

One players was 1v1ing me on a tower base by dropping down from his ESF and repeatedly killing me. He was stutter stepping: moving left and right while swerving his mouse left and right in unison, so that his character would sway violently from side to side, making consistent hits impossible for a legitimate player. I was so pumped after fighting this guy that I spent the rest of the night utterly violating every other player I came across, but even with my play hyped to such an extreme level he was still about 25 kills to 4. When he began using his LA1 Anchor he was also hitting constant and consistent headshots, as well as killing me while I was crouch/cloaked, he was also pre-aiming at me during various flanks.

I think that is great info that should be given to every noob. With specific links and written out details to provide a way for the average player to progress along that learning curve, accurately to the current game.

If the Devs are not gonna change the game to be more noob-friendly, then change it so that noobs know what to expect and can jump in running and plugged into the program. Managing new player expectations and giving them a clear and easy to access (though difficult to master) path to succeed.

But this info/path is not being given to noobs. And the ability to figure this out on their own becomes a massive weeder to new players in itself.

PS2 Devs doing a massive balance overhaul sounds like (a) a massive use of time/budget because PS2 Devs career cannot balance quickly, and (b) a terrible use of time/budget because PS2 Devs career cannot balance well.

In addition, the whole Vehicle Update is almost completely being conceptualized and done in the dark, and the players have no real clue as to how far along it is or what it will actually be like if/when it launches. And, PS2 runs the risk of pulling a Star Wars Galaxies and overhauling the very things that actually are keeping the remaining people playing, without actually making something that new players want to come to.

Excellent points.

This has been a (the?) major career problem of Verant/989/SOE/Sigil/DBG since they started. They pursue massive player base model games with the strategy of making a game for niche, small population elite players. And, they then use ongoing Dev support to then progressively tune the game to drive off more and more of the larger population demographics.

Totally agree.

I don't agree with this. This actually sets up the new players to be unhappy or fail. Teamplay in this game is a mixed bag, and liable to frustrate in itself if not clearly broken out into different types and what to expect (and not expect). And pushing players to play in Teamplay or play for Formal Objectives is also setting them up on a narrow path that can just as easily sabotage them and give them a nightmare experience.

Best bet is to fully chronicle what players can do in this game. Tell them they can group, and the different types of groups, what a session as such is like, and what the general experiences are. Tell them about lone wolfing and cover what that entails. Tell them about farming. Tell them about K/D. Tell them about ADAD, MedKit, Bail Assault, etc.

Tell them about he actual game that is there and that others are playing.

1) I think most the playerbase would freak out if K/D tracking was removed or otherwise nerfed.
2) I think PS2 Devs place a high value on gameplay focused on K/D (it's one of the few stats they as a company publicly track, they showcase it, and even recent game changes support it like the Engineer auto-regen change in ESFs to discourage people using LAs and doing Bail Assaults)

I think you make an important point. That K/D focus is a huge detractor from playing for battlefield objectives (as is grinding for Certs in a system that rewards farming with more Certs), but I don't think the Devs or or bulk of remaining playerbase care: they want their K/D.

I totally agree that this can be incredibly impactful gameplay. I know lots of players HATE it (and I don't blame them for their feelings), but locking down a busy Vehicle Terminal can be devastating at messing with the enemy being able to get key vehicles to into the game or a battle in a timely manner.

Just as blowing up a dormant/low-traffic ally Terminal can be hugely effective at cutting off an enemy from hacking that Terminal in order to blitz out a massive vehicle formation. (though I personally think Devs should remove that defensive option from the game)

death in this game means nothing, KDR means nothing, the game is already better for new players then when i started! didn't have koltyr, didn't get the low BR cert refund, none of that. the game is unpopular because of the dev's focus for such a long time on infantry and aircraft while leaving ground vehicles broken.

many people just want a free infantry meatgrinder and whine when vehicles kill them because they can't be bothered to use combined arms, when infantry explosives kill infantry more then they get killed by vehicle splash.

people whine and the devs listen to the whine the result is dumbing down the game without actually fixing broken balance. this is not a singleplayer game of call of duty or half-life where you can dial down the difficulty so you don't get hit too hard.

punishing high BRs for killing low BRs is stupid, more then anything else in the game newbies learn from deaths by what their enemy did and the tactics they used.

PS2 is how it is due to poor management and non-existent advertising.

old players shouldn't be punished for killing newer players, there's the tutorial continent then you get thrown in with the big boys with no hand holding.

people treat this coming in like it's a singleplayer game with the handholding mechanics, no matter what you do you'll eventually die which is why i advise newbies to play support and build up certs to kit out a class so they have a better learning experiance.

Devs could add a little binary flag in UserOptions.ini and call it "ShowKDR."

When set to "1" I will see deaths and KDR ratio.

When set to "0" I won't.

So you have everyone happy.

Believe it or not, infantry actually farms infantry more than vehicles do, shocking I know.

Also planetside shouldn't limit new players to JUST infantry play, that makes no sense to open up a game about only infantry combat and not play other triple A titles that specialize in infantry combat, the infantry combat in this game is rather clunky comparison to battlefield or even CoD.

I'm quoting this, as He's extremely correct on it.
And to emphasize it. - I apologize for the alert \ notification.

New players should definitely understand that vehicles exist, and must be dealt with.
There is 3 forces in this game; Infantry, Vehicles, and Aircraft.
Vehicles & aircraft are Force-multipliers, if New players can't grasp that they will have to deal with them one way or another, they will have even less results, and even worse experiences dealing with & using them.

In anything, the tutorials should open into 3 segments.
Infantry, Vehicles, and Aircraft - in that order.
So you can understand the basics of movement, sight lines, and basic 2-dimensional concept of cover as infantry.
Basic vehicle handling \ Controls, Value of directional Armor, leading your shots, and awareness as Vehicles.
3-Dimensional concept of Cover, Basic Flight Controls, Importance of using Radar \ Mini-map, Evasive tactics, as aircraft.

(Not to say those are topics only stuck to those, just it sorta leads into each other)

Alerting back because REVENGE also was a good read.

Thing is, if a player is kicking *** like they're a ******* action hero, then they deserve to be swarmed.
They are a major threat and need to be shut the **** down promptly.
On the other hand, really bad players, you can kill them, and probably should, but through the indicator you'll see that they're a low priority, low threat target that's unlikely to do much more than empty an entire LMG clip into you and not even drop your shields. You might decide against chasing them to the edge of the map like a ruthless bounty hunter, because they're worth nothing, because they accomplished nothing.

Also if you're farming a base in a vehicle, are you even going to bother with the newbies, or are you going to take the effort to hunt down all the prime targets that normally aren't the ones running out into the open?

I'm sorry to tell you that, whenever this suggestion is made, it's never about the suggestion maker being able to turn it on and off. No one cares about that because it could be turned on and then people will repeat the same behavior that they do now and we'll be back here making more threads about KDR. You turning it "off" is a something of feature of it, yes; but, if you're unable to distract your own attention from a number, the guarantee that you can distract yourself from the attention of an option is also open to question. The very fact that someone who says that KDR doesn't matter makes the suggestion that it interferes somehow proves that people who don't want to think about KDR do think about KDR at least a very decent amount.

People don't make this suggestion for their own benefit alone. They write these posts to irreparably influence the activity of every player who is not "them."

I'm sorta just, ya know, gonna try murder everything that comes my way.

For the life of me I could not understand what you are suggesting to do with the KDR issue affecting gameplay.

What do you propose concretely ?

1. Keep as it is
2. Remove it completely
3. Make it switchable on/off

That should be up to the players involved to realize.
Not be told by a passing crosshair.

As well, if I can see whom is ineffective; I know whom I can slaughter endlessly.
Which means every new player is quite literally indicated on the crosshair as farm material - unlike the mentioned "major threats", they won't return fire properly, nor return the favor & hunt you down.

The Prime targets are those of the least danger to kill; And yes people would, myself included.
Got to get those bloody directives done, certs make the world go round.
Would do it as infantry, vehicles, and aircraft; Doesn't matter what, people will farm with what they have.

As well, if with the crosshairs, you can see whom is dangerous, you can more easily do ceasefires, and mow down the "non-threats" even in a swarm.
People will kill the easy prey always, Doesn't matter if less when it is higher in bulk anyway which counters it.
And if you devalue it excessively, well bloody hell they'll be farmed harder - People whom farm, will farm the easiest target.

You just make it easier, when identifying whom is more likely to return their death with death to the user.
IE whom to bother with, for an easy kill.
And those whom don't care; They're still going to slaughter you, a kill is a kill.

I assume you're referring back to me; in which case, I will clarify that I am not proposing anything.

My argument was that adding a toggleswitch to KDR is not going to stop us from coming back to the position of people complaining about other people who care about KDR. If that's your problem.

Why do you all think a kill should always be worth a full kill?
You can't earn much of anything by killing weak enemies in an MMO, and while this isn't an MMORPG, do you want to encourage seal clubbing or pushing yourself to deal with greater challenges?

When I first started here, we didn't have Koltyr, we didn't have tutorials, you just got instantly dropped into the battlefield with no idea what was happening, and more often than not, shot dead 3 seconds later.

Thanks for answering... And sorry to be bit rude but I couldn't care less whether you come back or not, do whatever pleases you

Aside from that detail, do you have anything against the toggleswitch proposal ?

The question is, is it the fault of the experienced player for killing the noob, or the fault of the noob for being killed by the experienced player? OR does the blame rest with neither of them?

OP, you must transcend your backwards views and embrace superior thought processes.

As a Kill is a Kill.

As well, in MMO's, you literally farm those things intentionally by design.
Normally you do not farm, nor attempt to engage actual threats without some form of advantage.
For getting resources, materials, perks, EXP etc, in all games you usually do the most efficient work of it.

That means as much EXP with as little risk as possible with a reliable output:
That will always be those less capable.

To avoid being mauled, learn.. to... travel... with... allies...
Solo is death. This is a team game after all, so that should be obvious.

Everything costs certs.
As well, we have Koltyr now. So why in blazes make it profitable for new players to skip Koltyr and attempt to kill vets?
Think about it; Why bother with Koltyr if everyone is designed to be demotivated to kill you, but You reap full rewards regardless if you stole the kill, swarmed them, or anything of the like.

That'd encourage the idiots to leave Koltyr for profit rather than leaving to experience proper combat.
I never entered Koltyr, as I went to learn the hard way on bloody purpose.
It wasn't profitable for Certs, but was for learning.

Your way literally makes it encouraging to leave Koltyr while inexperienced, to rack up certs.
While also putting a target on said idiots to be farmed - Since they can see at a glance whom can't fight back well enough.

You know....

You and N00T are competing for the top spot in useless posts...

I swear these forums are full of nothing but cry-hards.. maybe they should funnel the new players into the lamer factions (I.e. Vanu & TR) since y'all can't win a fight without double teaming NC anyhow.

This game isn't a solo fest; if you want one surf your tears over to player unknown battlegrounds or back to counter-strike. The game is LITERALLY DESIGNED so that every third player will have the ability to trump your class or loadout because it's a combined effort. If you want $17,000 and an one-shot kill AWP at the start.. this game isn't for you.

They should implement a system where-by players who are sick of your whiny posts can vote to banish you back into whatever care-bare, inventory insuranced, automated no-content MMO solo grindfest you came from.

Accuses another of crying. Starts crying himself.

If the relative skill of you and the other were basically on the same level, there wouldn't be a cert penalty or bonus.
If the player has been sitting in a tree for 20 goddamn minutes with dozens of kills, spotting them will slap a big skull over them to show that they've done a lot of damage to your team without being dealt with.

I suppose we already have bounties, but the effect wouldn't be quite so obvious, just a change to the arrow to indicate how much harm they've done to your faction, you could think of it as accumulated threat.

We have "high threat" kills, but those aren't indicated in any way, and are just for ending a killing spree.