Yesterday I was watching a video of Wrel, don't remember the title but he was talking about how KDR fixation (for good or bad) influences play-style and therefore game-play on a bigger scale but there are discussions here as well (camping, redeploying, logging out, ...). Simple proposal: keep everything but allow the player to opt to track KDR or not. Leave by default "on" (as it is now) and if the player decide to tick it "off" the Kill, Death and KDR counters will not display anything. If the player changes his/her mind can switch it "on" again and the counters will start to work as usual. How: just add a tickbox ("Track KDR") in the "Settings/Interface" Tab. The option will not affect the score associated to killing, neither the kills count for every weapon, medals etc etc This is the best of both world: I want to have KDR --> I keep it. I do not like it --> I take it out and if I change my mind I can switch anytime.
If you dont care about this stat, then just dont look at it. Noone forces you to look at it. Also, stuff like camping is still better than this idiotic suicide gameplay this game has. There is just no way to act tactically in this game, because it's just full of suicide bombers anyway.
The problem is not the stat itself: it's that it is considered more important than territory control. Because bases come and go, alerts are won and lost, but KDR remains on stats site and it makes people feel happy. Like if farming people with the C-75 Viper could prove some kind of skill. But it's a bad bad bad mechanic. Because it drives people away from objectives. One just has to wake up and have a look around: countless times you see people forgetting to cap or resecure the point because they are just sitting in their vehicles sniping to get 1 more kill. Or they just leave the best position to run after a red dot on the minimap. Just think about Sunderer defence: most of players just consider it a waste of time, because it's all about "shooting planetmans!". KDR should only be tracked by stats sites, and it should NOT be visible in the game. This has been discussed countless times. In my opinion if Planetside 2 wants to have more depth than a conventional shooter we have to move away from that ****** ********. The stats system should encourage capturing and defending bases. The whole directives system should be based on "XP gained with a certain weapon" instead of number of kill. This would make Assists matter, and it would help people to focus on the game itself instead of following a personal goal that has often nothing to do with what the rest of faction actually needs. The whole XP system should clearly show XP gained through vehicles kills, Max kills, infantry kills, Scouting, Healing, Reviving, Overloading / Saving generators, Transport XP, Defense XP and so on. People should be rewarded for playing a role, not just for farming. That's why the whole Combined Arms Initiative imho is idiocy: the game remains a mindless meatgrinder where people hits Redeploy until they find a fight where they manage to farm enough kills. Everything else is secondary. Wrel supported this in one of his videos, but years have passed, and he seems to have more important things to do. I do not expect devs to make this kind of change.
If you'd take away KDR, there would be absolutely no thrill in the game anymore. Where is the fun when dying absolutely has no consequences for yourself? You play for your faction you say? LMFAO I honestly couldn't care less if these idiots lose or win the alert. As a single person I barely have any influence on this anyway. I do have control over my KDRs and other stats though, which is similar like a score in fps games. Playing this game for survival makes no sense, since you can just redeploy at the next base anyway, but you still can play it for score or stats, which actually gives the game some kind of goal.
PS1 had something similar. Session KD tracking was turned off by default, you had to turn it on to see your KD. People who didnt even know how to turn it on still cared about KD.
Xp via dmg done (or action done) instead of gaining it only on a kill/assist ... suddenly focusfire becomes not only more powerful but even more beneficial and desireable
I really like this idea. As it stands, K/D is meaningless. Apart from all the other reasons, you can "steal" the killing blow with the last 1% damage repeatedly and get all the benefits for doing none of the work. Sure, it doesn't actually work out that way in game, at least, with most infantry weapons, but it certainly does work that way with RL's, AV, vehicles, air, anything splashy etc. etc. I'd be FAR happier if PS2 rewarded "contribution" to things rather than having almost everything run off the "killing blow" system they have now. It's stupid and encourages bad gameplay! I know it kinda does this with XP, but completely ignores it on Aurax's, Directives etc.
https://forums.daybreakgames.com/ps...p-gain-ribbons-medals-and-achievments.244581/ since i opponed a thread about it and would like to get the conversation on that going
I pick suicide rushers over campers any day. Anyway it's more suicide pik-a-boo-desperate-cert play than suicide bombing I think.
It's not meaningless at all, it's just overrated by many people. It's just another stat and doesn't say much alone, but if you take it into account with other stats, like time played, amount of kills and deaths in general, amount of time in vehicles, etc, then it can give a pretty accurate picture about the skill of a player. And I am not just talking about K/D in general of course, but rather ivi and vehicle K/D seperated. Sure, in the end a kill always just is the killing blow, but I would say it's still pretty accurate more or less. If a person has about 10 kills, maybe only a single one of them will be a "stolen kill". And even such a "stolen kill" is still a deserved kill. Even when you just finish people off with the last shot sometimes, it's still a deserved kill, because finishing stuff off is the most important aspect about a kill in the end. It doesn't matter if you pump thousands of bullets into the MAX, what really matters is that you also finish it off.
life is better when you don't give a crab about KDR, since i stopped thinking about it and started having more fun my KDR has dropped hugely, but why would i care? i have one alt who i try to stay alive on, and its pretty boring/annoying compared to the rest.
Yes, yes it is.... as you yourself noted, you need to take a bunch of other things into account before K/D even starts to say anything useful. For example, which is better? K/D of 3 or K/D of 10? Obviously the 10, right? But now I tell you that the 3 dude only plays infantry, and the 10 dude only farms small fights as A2G. Suddenly the 3 dude looks a lot more skilled (and likely more useful) than the 10 dude. Again, not really. Because there are so many factors that don't make it into stats that affect things. For example, let's take two theoretical dudes with identical stats except that one has a K/D of 1 and the other has a K/D of 3. Obviously the 3 dude is better, right? But then I tell you that the 3 dude only ever plays in an organised squad, with medics always to hand, and if you check his killboard he only gets one kill per two deaths. On top of that, he doesn't push points or gens if he can avoid it.... he corner peeks and lets other dudes lead the way. The I further tell you that the K/D 1 dude largely plays solo-ish, seldom gets revives and is not at all afraid to push the point or be the first one through the door. Suddenly the K/D 1 dude is potentially a more skilled player than the K/D 3 dude. So, even with a broader stat comparison, without knowing the circumstances of a person's play sessions and play style etc. again the stats can be extremely misleading. Here is where I disagree with you again. I believe in shooting all the things, all the time! Except when I'm trying to stealth around, or maintain a "hidden" position, of course. But when I'm in the front lines and obviously not hidden or a target, I'm going to shoot EVERYthing. Now, sure... they might just pull back and heal or repair. But that represents time. Time they're not attacking / defending. Time they're not shooting my dudes. Time that, essentially, they might as well not be there at all. In addition, I can't know what else is going on on the battlefield in every detail. By shooting that dude, I might have weakened him enough to make the difference between him killing my mate (who's about to attack him) or my mate getting the kill. By shooting that MAX, even if he then kills me, I might have made it possible for an ally to take him out, where that ally would have failed before. To me, it's the difference between caring about personal success (why shoot if I can't kill) and caring about the empire's success (so long as we win, even if I lose, it's acceptable). And yes, I realise that probably sounds kinda pompous, it's just how I feel about the game.
Again, there are all kinds of K/Ds. There is a K/D for infantry versus infantry, there is a vehicle K/D, and there are also K/Ds for each vehicle individually. When most people talk about K/D, they mostly don't mean K/D in general, they mostly mean ivi (infantry versus infantry) K/D. No sh*t your general K/D doesn't say much (that was just exactly what I said), but things like ivi K/D, or K/D for ESF, etc already say a lot more. That's why you also take the stat for revives into account. There also is a stat for this in this game. I just said, you have to take all kinds of stats into account... Who cares if you push points or not? What really matters is if you can play your class or not. As a stalker infiltrator you also won't push anything, you will merely kill people from behind. And if the person plays heavy, it also doesn't matter if he pushes anything or not, as long as he does a lot of kills per hour. Again, since you totally seem to miss the point I tried to make. K/D alone does not say much, but it helps getting a picture of the skill of a player when put into account with other stats. Of course hitting stuff is not completely useless, but actually killing it is much much better. And again, I am not saying the stat system in this game is completely accurate, I am just saying it is accurate enough to geta good picture about the skill of a player. Those "stolen kills" are rather an exception when getting a kill, except you are extremely lucky perhaps.
There is?!? Please point it out, 'cause I've never come across it. Of course, I'm not particularly bothered by stats, so I very rarely look at them. Certainly possible I just missed it..... KPH is an even more meaningless stat than K/D. Do you know who has the highest KPH's ever? That's right. Stat-padders. Planetside is meant to be a game about territory control and stomping the other factions. I'll admit it's not often played that way, but that's what it's meant to be. As such, pushing points is, well.... kinda the point. And while your stalker infil shouldn't be first through the door, there's nothing stopping him being in the room to drop a recon sensor, camping outside the doors to shoot wounded dudes that duck out to heal etc. Even that's useful. Sitting in a corner in the middle of nowhere doing nothing, waiting for some random lost newbie to wander by so you can murder him is not useful. And as I pointed out.... without knowing the details of a persons actual gameplay and playstyle, even the best stats in the world can be misleading / useless. There's a reason they say "lies, damned lies and statistics". And yet, your original comment implied that, if you couldn't get the kill, shooting at something was worthless. I quote : "It doesn't matter if you pump thousands of bullets into the MAX, what really matters is that you also finish it off." Yes, yes it does matter. If you don't shoot at that MAX, even when you know you can't kill it, you might be denying your team the opportunity to kill it or to kill it easier. For example - when I'm HA (not that I play it a lot, but still) and I see a MAX, I'm not going to wait until I've seen other dudes shooting him so that I can get the kill. I'm gonna shoot that bastard straight away. Even if he kills me, that's one less rocket my team need to put on him to take him down. If you don't fire your RL or Rocklet Rifle at that enemy tank "because you can't kill it" it might kill your sundy before a friendly tank kills it. If you don't fire your primary at that enemy MAX "because you probably won't kill it", it's just gonna keep chewing through your mates. Etc. etc. etc. I think I've made my point.
Of course there is a stat for this. There is a stat for deaths with and without revives. You clearly have no idea what you are even talking about. It makes no sense with you. If the stats in this game would be really so meaningless, then why do pro teams only let players in with certain stats? Anyway... i am done arguing with you. I have better things to do.
So show me where it is... like I asked the first time..... I just went and checked fisu and DasAnfall (I don't know of any other sites) and I certainly couldn't find one. Making claims and then not backing them up even when asked makes you look like the Liar-in-Chief DJT. Again, a claim. Again, no evidence. I read my comments fairly carefully to make sure they make sense, and I've actually studied formal logic. As far as I can see, my comments make sense and your "claims" are baseless. Because even "pro" teams (not like PS2 has any) are perfectly aware that they can immediately remove anybody who it turns out can't actually perform. Stats are just an easy way to exclude those who obviously won't meet requirements - for example, a dude with a K/D of 0.5 will never cut the mustard in a "pro team" regardless of how he plays. And I didn't claim they were "meaningless". I said, quote : "without knowing the details of a persons actual gameplay and playstyle, even the best stats in the world can be misleading / useless." That is a demonstrable fact, something that anybody who knows anything about statistics (as I do) would actually know. Fair enough. No point continuing the discussion since you're quite clearly determined not to learn anything from somebody that actually knows more than you do about the topic being discussed.
Not even reading this crap, but this discussion is completely pointless anyway. If you don't like K/D stats, then don't look at them. That simple. And removing them does absolutely nothing. There are people who like to play for K/D. Why trying to take them away a reason to play this game? It's also not like you can blame them, because with this "teamplay" in this game, playing for K/D is pretty much all you can do to have some kind of goal.
So, once again, you completely avoid the issue. At no point did I ever suggest removing K/D from the game. I don't think they should. You just claim I did, once again, without evidence to support your claim. I DID ask you to show me anywhere that has a stat for revives, and you failed to do so.... twice.... despite claiming that it exists. WTF is wrong with you? I really expected better and, frankly, I'm disappointed in you tbh.....
