PTS Update - 1/3

If you're going to nerf thermal optics that much at least refund us ALL of the certs so that way we can decide for ourselves if we want to use it or not. 200 certs per thermal optic PER weapon is a ****-ton of certs. Please don't screw us all that way as well.

So, the SMGs

Skorpios
Forward Grip, HVA, Extended Magazine
Now properly restores one magazine per tick from ammo boxes
Max damage range from 10 to 8
Min damage range from 48 to 60
ADS Cone of Fire from 0.2 to 0.3
Vertical recoil from 0.3 to 0.2
Recoil angle from 20 to 15
Horizontal recoil from 0.3/0.392 to 0.225/0.294
Horizontal recoil tolerance from 0.9 to 0.675
Short reload from 1.74sec. to 2.08sec.
Long reload from 2.8sec. to 3.36sec.

Armistice
Forward Grip, Extended Magazine, HVA
Now properly restores one magazine per tick from ammo boxes
Max damage range from 6 to 4
Min damage range from 50 to 62
Velocity from 388 to 370
ADS Cone of Fire from 0.2 to 0.3
Vertical recoil from 0.225 to 0.15
Horizontal recoil from 0.3470/0.3760 to 0.26/0.282
Horizontal recoil tolerance from 0.9 to 0.675
Short reload from 2.25sec. to 2.7sec.
Long reload from 2.92sec. to 3.5sec.

Tempest
Forward Grip, Extended Magazine, HVA
Now properly restores one magazine per tick from ammo boxes
Max damage range from 6 to 4
Min damage range from 54 to 66
ADS Cone of Fire from 0.2 to 0.3
Vertical recoil from 0.36 to 0.3
First shot recoil multiplier from 2.25 to 2.5
Horizontal recoil from 0.212/0.304 to 0.159/0.3
Horizontal recoil tolerance from 0.7 to 0.675
Short reload from 1.855sec. to 2.23sec.
Long reload from 3sec. to 3.6sec.


the directive "reward"smgs were a bad joke to beginn with and now they get even worse. dont try to turn them into long range weapons. it does not work. just give them SPA, extended mag and ALS (or a silencer) and they would be awsome as hell but you took the first gen SMGs, ***** them and then cut their throats. my god, if i want a more long range smg i will take the ns7 and for any longer range a scoutrifle.
SMGs are balanced around the infiltratos thats why they lack range so much but any other class has better options. i will alway take a lynx/serpent/gd7f over any smg on my engy/LA and the medics also have a lot better options than the smgs. so, the only class where i play my smgs is the infiltrator and there i want a cqc weapon not that abomination you try to give into my hands. i played the scorpios to auraxium and i will not touch it again.
also: why longer reload times??? totally stupid. those weapons are a pain and a punishment no reward.

and again: SPA, extended mag and ALS / sielcer is the way to create a good SMG that fullfills its role as a cqc weapon.



The Pistols:

The Immortal
Velocity from 163 to 325
ADS CoF bloom from 0.12 to 0.06
Magazine size from 17 to 15
Ammo capacity from 85 to 90

The Executive
Velocity from 188 to 375
ADS CoF bloom from 0.14 to 0.07
Magazine size from 15 to 13
Ammo capacity from 75 to 78

The President
Velocity from 188 to 375
ADS CoF bloom from 0.1 to 0.05
Magazine size from 21 to 18
Ammo capacity from 105 to 108
er rank to 10 rockets per rank
Velocity from 150 to 250
Ammo capacity from 64 to 100

for f***s sake: why would you reduce the magazin sice????? the point of the ES pistols are that they have at least a little bit more spamability than the revolvers therefore they kill slower (in case of the immortal and executive a lot slower). in terms of the president this idea is even worse. it may be based on the fastest killing ES pistol but it still kill slower than the revolvers and only deals as much damage per mag as the underboss so why would you reduce the damage per mag???
to be honest, the immortal is the worst weapon i have ever played and it was a pain to bring it to auraxium. i hated it even more than the beamer. so i give a flying F**** if the muzzle velocity gets buffed since i play my pistols in cqc were it doesnt matter but reducing the magsize is a big kick in the balls for everyone who grinded for those guns.

Resume: you totally f***ed up the two weapon types a dedicated cqc-infiltrator loves to play. the directive SMGs and pistols were a pain since they came into the game but now you totally destroyed them. so yeah, please go shove them up into those parts of your body where the light will never touch them again. and yeah, its official, the devs dont play infiltrator and seem to hate them more than any other class.

These are exactly my thoughts about the Weapons! I am glad to hear that I am not the only one

I would suggest that Directive Pistols have more customisation (Lasersight Darklight etc) and also something special to them...

They should reward the Effort...they are just a terribly downgrade to the standart pistols.

I would like to see:

-Beamer with Heat mechanic BUT with much less Magazine size...like 12Bullets and with reload option.

-Repeater with 3Burst modus which you can switch to Fullauto or a huge Magazine with no reserve (if it would not be bugged like the butcher ffs)

-Mag-Shot with underbarrel shotgun xD

Remove thermal optics on vehicles for infantry? Are you kidding me?? As a person with bad eyesight I use this specifically for that purpose. I've spend enormous amounts of certs on those and I don't even care about that. You're destroying my whole vehicle game with PS2 if this ever goes live. Dammit DBG, stop pissing me off...

my opinions:

very happy walker will finally be able to shoot at infantry on the ground and also deal light damage to vehicles!

happy with the buffs to jackhammer, minigun and lasher. (small as they are)

confused about the ineffective addition of c4 resistance to MBT armour that won't save them from c4.

hoping for a different trait for godsaw,
vehicle damage is a cool idea but it's just so weak, and buffing the damage could cause balance issues.

sad about the VERY heavy nerf to Hornets which are already less used than lolpods.

hoping for a cert refund once thermals become useless.

Might be that with the Termal nerf, ESF A2G players would switch more away from AI and more to Ground Vehicle targets. And Hornets already kill more MBTs than lolpods despite being used less than lolpods.

@SW0V

I believe the damage here will be to minor and maybe abit anoying to VS and TR ESF.
I agree on giving the Lasher an alternate use of its ammo.
But jackhammer ... what i cant understand this point
And now the great idea you had for the T7... rly?
I guess your a TR main player and love this weapn (maybe you love all hvy weapns of each empire) but turning it into a f****** handhold Vulcan is stupid

If you would "balance" this, the damage dealt to vehicles needs to be almost the same per clip. T7 has a lot of bullets to spam (125) and the NC05 only has 9 rounds in comparison. Everyone who ownes this weapon would be albe to use a real AV-sniperrifle instead of a shotgun.

Just whanted to point this out SW0V

if fear of an AV revolution was the cause of such a huge nerf why did they also nerf the AoE damage by half and reduce the splash range by 25%?
that, ontop of the hefty 25% direct damage nerf makes me feel like they just don't want people to use hornets anymore.

compared with lolpods (reaver variant because NC is my main)
they now deal less than half of the damage of lolpods 3000 vs 6600 and far less splash.
in their defense someone might say "well they are quick to fire so you don't need to stick around!"
now that they deal half the damage in half of the time i feel that argument crumbles,
i could fire off a quick burst of lolpods to achieve the exact same effect.
also lolpods can be fired from really far away, while hornets have a fairly short range limit.

The thermal change is terrible, for several reasons. It's buffed for A2G aircraft killing tanks, making vehicle stealth useless, while it becomes essentially useless for ground vehicles. If it's such a massive problem, why not just nerf the range to like 80m or something, instead of making it outright garbage.

Honestly, this change might be the thing to make me quit the game after 4 years of playing

Although I don't have a full 4 years in, my thoughts exactly...

Nerfing the Hornet splash seems like it will (1) punish poor aim and (2) reduce the effectiveness vs. Infantry. The punish on poor aim is a direct blow to Average Players, which seems pretty consistent with SOE/DBG agenda. The reduction vs. Infantry could be just a way to weaken the weapon's overall usability, by making it less effective vs. secondary targets (Infantry).

We've already seen Wrel largely remove Coyote and A2AM by making them weak, it's wouldn't be a huge shock to see him use this same method to remove Hornet from use. Though it would represent a different agenda than the one that sought the removal of Coyote and A2AM (Skyknight Support). Is Hornet removal a push for the MBT Support? Or a push for the Rocket Pod Support? Or maybe it's just some "confused" designer tweaking numbers without actually understanding what they are doing (which SOE/DBG has a voluminous cultural history of doing as well).

I currently prefer NR/TR Rocket Pods over Hornet. So you don't need to convince me Rocket Pods are good. But with the loss of Thermal, my already bad aim, and my not wanting to squint at the screen hunting for Thermal-invisible Infantry pixels, I might have gone back to Hornets (which have used a lot and I do like on a number of levels: huge Ammo, MBTs, general AV work, usable for AI especially vs. MAXs, etc). Maybe this is to either ensure players like me don't go back to using Hornets, or that if we do that we kill MBTs less effectively.

When I run Rocket Pods currently, I tend to have a pretty broad range of primary targets I look for. And what I look for often ends up what I engage/kill. When I run Hornets currently, my primary target look for is usually MBTs, and I only shoot some other stuff if it pops up and the Hornet (or my Nosegun, Large Mag these days) is decent at killing/engaging it.

So that's why it makes sense to me that if ESF A2G players start hating doing AI without Thermal, then they have more of a reason to hit MBTs (which remain prime targets for ESF A2G AV: easyish, plentiful, fun, etc.). And for me that would have meant probably going back to Hornets. Now with this change, maybe I don't go back to Hornets.

I haven't played NC in forever. I just can't stand their lack of non-MAX Infantry Extreme Range AV. With the Test Server change to the AV Mana Turret, I think their non-MAX Infantry Extreme Range AV is now 300m (AV Mana Turret and Phoenix). That's phenomenally bad. With the Raven pushing that range out to 350m.

In contrast, thee VS has Lancer and TR has Striker (single fire while crouch for Extreme Range), both of which provide a solid means of Range AV Pressure. If DBG nerfs the Lancer and Striker to ~300m, then I will just spawn ESF with Large Mag Nosegun as my Range AV Pressue. If they nerf that I'd probably just quit: I have no interest in playing a FPS with massive Maps, that only uses battlefields the size of medium instances, with CQC Infantry and maximum 300m non-Tank AV.

I play this game since long time now and more and more i see this game dying
I dont know why daybreak try to kill this great game that SOE created !
Construction system was a big mistake or at least on the old continent and not on a different new continent or map !
You can't play shortly like before (play an alert and quit, play time 2h) now it's too long for make something interesting :-/
This TOTAL NERF Update is ******** and i hope never come on live servers !
I think that it's time to offer to all players the possibility to migrate their characters to another servers (bad pings or other) and maybe start thinking of a merge of some servers because of no more great big battles like i have seen by the past :-/
If this update come to live you must give a total refund of accreditations for change the horribles new thermal useless optics etc...
I hate to see that Daybreak run only for money now and not for the players. You have removed so items of depot because of low prices (logo of each empire who should be available on characters and vehicules by default now) etc etc etc....

AH and something that make me very angry => REPUT THE SHINY CAMOS EFFECTS ON THE NC SOLDIERS OMG !!!!
I have bought shiny camos that works well on RT or VS soldiers but **** NC ? This bug is on live since more of 1 year now !
And all the VR in live are bugged, some factions don't have light assault rocket launcher, locking system that NEVER work in VR !
I think that all the camos (black and white) and directives weapons should be available in VR like in test server !
I use the test server just like a VR because Daybreak never listen players and reports of bug is useless !
Battleeye anti cheat system who make the game so long to loading for nothing more omg ! Only good choices GG !
And for finish make a better translation of your game (PS2) ! The french version of the game is like my english actualy => horrible !
Sometimes the translations are idiots, full of mistakes and some tips are totaly obscurs. With all the games released since some months i understand why more and more players left this game definitively ! Why not a death screen like in battlefield ? The old versions was better. So stop wanting money because you only loose players ! I really want retrieve the fast big battles we have before constrction system ! And stop change game mechanics always or refund all the accrediations to all players for they can change their loadouts with new system because some players spent real money to acquire some items. Ah and stop make the items only buyable for 1 faction ! Since the begining of the game all players who buy camos, weapons, etc... with real money have it for all factions (not for empire specific items) but you have change the 2 construction system bundles for that since 2 months (good thing) but you make the same mistake with rocket launcher ! Thats totaly stupid because why use real money in this case ? Useless and you loose money with this system ! I start playing this game since 2014 for this account but i know the game since the beta version and months after months i ask me why i should continue to put real money in this game ! Membership accounts is totaly useless since you have touched the passive certs for premium and no premium players. Before everybody gain passive certs to push them to reconnect at least 1 time per day now i come and play sporadicaly because the game is so long, slow mechanics and become so boring !

If you continue the players community will must NERF you (Daybreak) !

Sorry for my horrible english but i m so angry to see bugs since more of 1 yers always in live and see too much useless changes make only for the money. I m so sad to see this great game starting forget and replace by all the old players i have cross on the battlefield snif ! If we don't see cheaters anymore it's not because of the new battleyes system but just because they are all go on more recent games ! I want my good old game

Nothing new, just wanted to add my weight:

The hornet missile changes seem unnecessary for me. I'll admit a conflict of interest in that I only just discovered how damn fun they are to use and only days ago dumped massive certs into them, but I'd prefer to see them unchanged.

Even though I mostly fly these days I've never had a problem with Aspis AA turrets, especially the constructable ones - I don't think they need any nerfing at all. If anything, I struggle to use them myself, perhaps their accuracy or projectile velocity is too low?

I actually don't like the AV MANA turret myself, haven't been able to use it since an odd patch which made it extremely difficult to aim (added mouse acceleration I think?), something to do with the PS4 release. And as much as I find them annoying this looks like a massive over-nerf: Perhaps the effective range is too much (perhaps it isn't) but what I can say for certain is that it doesn't need to be crunched down that hard.

I haven't used the Jackhammer myself, being VS almost exclusively, but from being on the receiving end it has always seemed adequate - again, perhaps it could benefit from a change but this sounds like an over-buff.

And now my big complaint which I cannot stress enough: I really don't like the sounds of the thermal changes. I think the proposed change would be nerf it well into the realms of uselessness. IF - and only if - you think it's absolutely, 100% necessary, then at least refund the certs (it reminds me of the first time NV optics were changed, I had them on most vehicles and have literally never so much as equipped them since, not even once, the lack of refund angers me to this day, even though I don't really need those certs). And, at risk of being "that guy", I will say this: if the change is implemented I won't leave the game, but I will stop my subscription until such a time as I am proved wrong on this, which seems unlikely.

Hello,

I want to highlight again with a small graphic what the LMG and AR will become with this update.....

We must before to remember that LMGs have already less accuracy, less ROF and more recoil than other weapons and now... they will have less damage...?

A True non-sense....

Juste take a look below....

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Sounds like a problem with your eyes, not with the game.

On a more general note, i think that the entire weapon classification needs to be reevaluated, perhaps even prune out a couple of classes. >For example<, all battle, scout and sniper rifles should just be merged into a single Rifle category that is used by Infiltrators and Heavies. SMGs could even be reclassified as sidearms and all sidearms rebalanced accordingly. I feel like many changes are being done to try and keep the balance and metagame in check when the core problem lies in the categories of weapons and trying to fit all these weapons into them and balanced agaisnt eachother.

it'll definitely have that effect on me,

a large portion of people already think lolpods are superior,
i like to play a "strafing run" style so i prefered hornets for their ability to deal their damage in a quick flyby,
but now the argument will be over, lolpods will be better in every way.

the only thing hornets have is the large reserved ammo pool, but that isn't a very good selling point when you can so quickly get back to a landing pad and restock your lolpods.

Leaving "Vehicle Thermal Optics" unchanged for the ground vehicles would be a wiser choice, since infantry is a bigger threat for tanks/sunderers/lightnings/etc.

Ditto. I don't have a problem with them either. I think they are in a good place.

Perhaps it's a change being made for Skyknight Support, so they can better farm enemy ESFs without being disrupted.

I remember having to fiddle with Settings > General a while back to get my AV Mana turret to have fine-tuned responsive aim. I just checked, and I think it's Mouse Sensitivity that affects it, and my is set to 0.20. I remember this ended up making my AV Base Turret control VERY sluggish, but not much I could do about it without changing my settings back and forth for each.

It's further complicated because we don't know the DBG Designer/Producer agenda behind their changes. Or their thoughts on how these changes will push that agenda.

I tend not to agree with their agenda choices. And they tend to botch their attempts to pursue their agendas (except when nerfing something to extinction). So I don't have high hopes on any level.

I'm kinda torn.

I'm familiar with SOE/DBG Cert refund policy on changes, so getting shafted on Certs on this isn't really that surprising or bothering for me. And I do think that Vehicles have it far to easy to farm Infantry in the spaces between bases (despite what Vehicle users say), so maybe it will be nice to throw a wrench in AI Farming and in Vehicle dominance of spaces between bases (though the change to AV Mana Turret is a step in the other direction vs. Ground Vehicles in who controls the spaces between bases).

On the other hand, I dread having to lean forward and eyeball the pixels on my screen to figure out who all the heck is there Inafntry-wise. Much about having fun playing these games is being able to use stuff without getting frustrated straining to do common and frequent actions.

The skorpios is weird, yet still alright thanks for the 10m vanilla max range (8m is workable). The Shuriken and the Tempest however are going to become a meme, 0.5s more on the reloads, shuriken its velocity nerfed (HVA benefits) while the Tempest had its first shot multiplier increased, the max damage range cut down even more, and last but not least, all of them also had its special barrel removed. All of this for a forward grip. Great trades, I could balance this whole game while drunk and on LSD, send me job offer DBG.

If you want a better shuriken/skorpios/tempest from now on, snap a forward grip and SPA on your gun, and you're ready to go.

And I disagree on you with the pistols, the decreased ADS bloom will actually make them more spammable without having them to lose their accuracy, and the silencer is going to become very powerful, since it only removes 20 meters on your minimum damage range, instead of affecting aswell the maximum damage range and the velocity.

Well, that's a reason to finally quit.
"Threat detection" doesn't detect infantry, despite infantry being a major threat [be it either air, or ground], and anti-tank missiles get nerfed because.. they're doing their job?
Jackhammer buff?
Why?

It's already extremely powerful, there is no need for it to be buffed.

That Butcher nerf..

so you've literally negated getting the Butcher, thanks.

You've successfully crippled the game.
Congratulations, Daybreak, you've cost yourself even more players.
Come 2018, the game will be dead if you continue making changes like this.

..And nerfing directive pistols?
Jesus, just sell the game on to someone else, nobody at Daybreak has any goddamn idea what they're doing.