[Suggestion] Infiltrator redesigned

Infiltrator Is meant to flank and recon. However, it has a single ability to do so. Invisibility.
permanent invisibility and armored invisibility are just sidegrades. what about different options?
The infil I thought about would have this 3 abillities:

-hunter cloak, the default basic cloak

-ability to walk walls. and no, I dont mean wallrun like on titanfall or black ops 3 ( even if it would be a nice implementation ) I mean the ability to walk on walls the same way as it would be ground. this would make the battle flow in unexplored places.

- ability to run way faster for a shor period of time. this would bring new flank options and fun cqc engagements.
this abillity could be fun if the infil is only given a 1hit kill knife.

2nd ability would be more oriented to the sniper infil, while the 3rd one would be more smg oriented (if not knife ). and we would still have cloak that fits both playstyles.

what do you guys think about this?
any other ability ideas to fit different playstyles? for example, supressive/support HA or full offensive HA:
the actual ability fits mostly both playstyles, but maybe someone here can bring some ideas that make the abilities more certain-playstyle-oriented?
thanks for your attention.

Recon darts and motion spotters are also recon abilities. But the ability to be a bit more agile (not necessarily wall walking but a better than average ability to get over walls and obstacles) would be nice.

Ability to run a lot faster would be great, but mainly for escaping.

Reduced fall damage would be nice as well, then I could maybe jump off platforms to escape from Towers after getting caught hacking turrets and suchlike .

As Eternaloptimist mentioned the Infiltrator tools also help. Also the utility mines that the Infil can carry are a great help in flanking, protecting the Infiltrators own flanks and causing chaos behind enemy lines.

Every class works like that.

LA: Different jumpjets
Heavy: Different Shields
Medic: AOE heal or AOE shield regenerator
Engineer: Different turrets

etc.

So... Basically you are allowing the Infiltrator to do everything that the LA can do, but without the restrictions of fuel capacity? You can walk up trees, the sides of mountains, climb buildings no problem. So the end result is that you now have an invisible LA with snipers and SMG's?


I know you don't like me, but it's because of these leaps of illogic that you keep doing that's the problem, not me pointing it out.
Oh and stop trolling me on other threads, you are only insulting me and never coming up with any arguments or whatever. I bet you are even searching for my posts just so you can make a snide comment and justify your own anger.

So... Charge? And shouldn't the class designed around mobility get it, rather than the Infiltrator? Why do you want it on your Infil? This is like giving the Medic access to a resistence-field that when active increases the resistance against firearms for the Medic and friendlies.

They would be LA oriented. Also people have been afraid to give the LA a sniper as people fear it would be OP in the mobile can-reach-any-vantagepoint LA. But now you are giving out superior mobility options to the Infiltrator?

I think that creating new idea's for certain playstyles is good, but this is just screwing over the LA class, making it almost obsolete for normal gameplay. Can you try and create some idea's that enhance a playstyle in a class without giving class A an ability that trumps the existing ability of class B.

anyone knows if I can forbid certain people from writing on my posts? this guy is so annoying

Find a post by the user, left click the user's name, and choose "Ignore" on the popup (right-most option, above "Likes Received" field).

Asides from the fact that you can't ignore yourself - yes, I've tried that - that's the limit of what I can tell you. I've never ignored anyone so I don't know how it works beyond theory. At the least, you will never see this person's posts again (though I think you can still read other people quoting ignored posts).

Demigan does raise some good points that you should take notice of. Primarily the one that concerns me is the wall run as while it gives the infiltrator some extremely good options, it basically makes the light assault obsolete.

If you decide to make it so that the infil loses its cloak but can walk on walls, then it's almost completely useless, you lose 100 health with weaker gun options compared to the light assault.

This is the problem with this idea, there is no middle ground. You can't really balance it either way.

If I was to give some ideas, I'd like a tool similar to the motion dart given to the infiltrator that when fired at a friendly, it cloaks them temporarily for perhaps 10-20 seconds. This could also work on smaller vehicles.

This kind of idea, opens up entire new gameplay options without compromising other classes.

Whats the point of making this thread at all if you didnt want rational and valid constructive criticism to your idea.

I understand that you are dedicated to trolling him whenever you get the chance, but his concerns does makes sense if you would read his post.
Especially the part about LAs.

What i read:

Ok guise... lets render other classes useless, then we create an echo chamber in the thread so the circle jerking can begin....

*sighs* god knows demigan can at times be excessive in his criticism, that said, here i don't think he has (in fact his issues seem entirely reasonable - particularly in relation to the LA) if i had thought he was being excessive (which i have done in the past) i have challenged his position.

what i would rather give to infiltrators (and add to many bases - if not at least 2-3 in all bases) is hackable doors, gravlifts, shields (if an infiltrator could lower a gate shields level by 1 for say 10-20 seconds, it would open up whole new levels of infiltrator play - aka vehicle shield, turned off (even if only for a lower tier units, maybe only non-tanks or non MBT's), player+vehicles shields to just vehicles), this could be deactivated early by defending infiltrators (with a one third time - say it was 6 seconds to lower, it would take defenders 2 seconds to turn on). if infiltrators had more things to hack, things that changed battle flows (what if EVERY door and window could be hacked open and closed - you know all them bases with 6 closed doors and there is a flood into one door, suddenly defenders have to hold 6 doors - if thats excessive attackers could only open 3 doors, and if they try to open a fourth it closes the first opened one), suddenly infiltrators MUST be around to control the flow of battles, suddenly hunting infiltrators isnt just for "satisfying your blood lust" (cause you got killed) but to hold the base easier. then vehicle defences could also be lowered slightly as vehicle attack points would be fewer (less room to farm) on the buildings, want to stop a vehicle slaughter in the building have the infil close the door... (door terminals would be distant enough not to be hit be AOE).

similarly this makes it so that places attackers have already taken (with regards to doors) become more defendable by the attackers. defenders limit you to one door... you do the same... or you can open up more attack points to thin the flow of enemy into each one.

another thing i would like to see, is decoy grenades buffed slightly, (to be far more deceptive in nature), what if when you throw a decoy nade near a terminal, turret, point, or other hackable object, and it goes off, it fake hacks them instead of shooting (so if i threw one near a vehicle terminal, on the minimap it looks like im hacking it, but im not) similarly if i throw it on the point nearby enemies (doesn't affect people outside the hex or looking on the world map etc. - so even peeps in the hex could check) would see it as being captured (friendlies wouldn't - they would see a small nade image on it that signals the decoy). this opens more game play options for the infil, in relation to traps (we can mine a door way near a terminal, throw the nade, watch as people rush and then boom), you could play double bluffs with points, place a nade on the point and then 10 seconds later start capping it.

as far as i can tell, this removes nothing from any other class, and yet opens up so many doors for the infiltrator in as far as their intended role goes, subterfuge. we control, manipulate and mess with our opponents at great risk to our selves. we open the doors, we get the vehicle terminals, we take the turrets, or we undo the above... thats what infiltrators should be. at least in my view. of course on top of the recon work we perform as well.

now granted maybe some buildings shouldnt have hackable doors, grav lifts, and shields, shouldnt be hackable but these are exceptions, and ones that should be left as such. opening game play options, and such is what we should aim for, not limiting them unnecersarily.


now as i normally say these are probably flawed ideas (heres your chance demigan ^.^), so im open to criticism i would like your opinions too.

God knows, I send him a memo...

I have to agree with others. These ideas are interesting, but better suited for the LA. Even then I would suggest them as sidegrades to the jetpack and not full on upgrades that work at the same time as the jetpack (or invisibility)
Charge? Movement and mobility is the staple of the LA. Fushes and quick harrying of enemies. I would make it a "mini charge" for the LA. The "jetpack" fuel can be used for several bursts of speed that are easier to handle and stop than the late MAX charge. This would make fuel consumption more like the jetpacks themselves. Shooting can be done at any time, but during the sprint youll have jumping COF.
Walking on walls is too strong in my opinion, regardless of class. Any class would greatly benefit by ignoring "normal" rules of engagement. Who expects someone upside down on the roof? Or in that nook that you normally cannot stand in, but as you are sideways you suddenly have an insane place to hide?
Although flight has some advantages, at least you also have a bad COF and can barely move one way or another. It ismore predictable.

Also, your crusade against Demigan is petty. I know he's a reasonable guy in most cases and in my one discussion with you, you seemed to be able to listen to the other side as well, which few do on these forums. I suggest to ignore your past with him and if you think a post is irrational either suit up and come with good arguments or ignore it and he'll leave you alone. Follow him on the forum and calling him out, then trying to discredit him when he brings up some good points against your idea seems irrational. Burry the axe.

im curious does your lack of criticism on my post indicate it was so bad that it didn't warrant comment, or that you couldn't find anything to criticise or merely your couldn't be bothered criticising? (honestly youre one of the best people for critique even if at times i disagree with you or its excessive)

I didn't have time to criticize it yesterday.

I had a similar idea, but differently executed.

Rather than hacking individual doors, the defenders get a security console (SC). These consoles can perform different functions on the base. For instance one SC generates shields on doorways. The defenders can use the console to swap out what doorways are shielded, giving them the power to create chokepoints or try to cut enemies off from each other.
The SC is destroyable by small-arms, and will mostly be located in tough-to-reach locations that are easily defendable against 'normal' intrusions like HA's. This gives the stealthy Infil and the mobile LA a far more important part on the battlefield, instead of the usual "HA can do everything either the best or second best, you don't have to bother with other classes".

The idea of hacking individual doors was present in PS1 I believe. Would doors stay hacked or would they need re-hacking every now and then? Say after a hack they would revert to unhacked after a minute or two so that the infil remains important even if you can keep defenders away from the door.
I wouldn't allow infiltrators to hack every door. Currently the flow of battle and the way battles progress is determined by which doors are open and closed. If you allow them to hack everything, you would see the most obvious doors being opened 95% of the time, such as the one's closest to the spawnroom.
Also how would you handle the defenders hacking doors as well in the 'a maximum of X doors can be open' scenario? The defenders aren't going to like some doors going open, especially if it closes the doors that they are going to use to enter. This could result in some infiltrators sitting at 3 doors constantly hacking it so that the other doorways remain closed, denying one side proper excess.

I would stick to having maybe one extra door closed by a shield and one already closed door opened but with a shield on it. That way the developers can still cultivate what kind of fight happens depending on the layout and doors they open/close but there's still some strategy in trying to hold doors and hack them for both the defenders and attackers.

Sounds good. I would also allow the decoy grenade to create a fake infiltrator image. Make it a bit grainy or flicker occasionally so that people can spot it for a decoy, but also make it walk around within 5m distance of the decoy grenade, it doesn't even matter if the decoy walks through walls that's just another way to spot it's a fake. When 'hacking' a terminal it would remain close to the terminal ofcourse.
That way the decoy grenade has an actual use, especially when compared to the arguably most powerful grenade in the game with it's EMP effects.

Sounds good.

For things like gravlifts and shields I would stick to generators and SC's. It would be too tough to keep up with sabotage if literally everything could be sabotaged individually. It's understandable for doorways as fights actually take place there, but things like gravlifts and jumppads are more annoying especially since you can't really plan for one being down. A gravlift breaks down, you have to go all the way back, pick an infil, go back to the graflift and hope someone else hasn't fixed it in the meanwhile. With a doorway there's always an alternative you can pick from.

hmm actually, instead of 2 terminals for every door, you would have 1 external neutral terminal for each building. the placement of such would favour defenders (much like most terminals already), but if the attackers could obtain control of it, the benefit for breaching the building would be high. both sides need to hack the terminals to use it (even defenders). since its 1 terminal per building, but they are neutral you can make them breakable, as they can be repaired, then hacked by BOTH teams, as opposed to just defenders being able to repair (how all terminals should be honestly). if the terminal is blown up, it reverts back to default door settings. to prevent abuse, each base would have preset choices on doors. higher level hacking allows higher tier door settings to be used (this gives a reason to upgrade hacking), however this would allow devs to control how a building was attacked by restricting certain door patterns in certain bases. higher tier ones will favor one group more than the other whilst still having atleast 1 entrance for both attackers and defenders. smaller buildings would remain as is (completely open, to prevent there being like 30 terminals).

since the terminals would favor defenders, it would play to the LA for destroying them, as their manuverability would let them attack it, with lesser risk to themselves, in comparison to normal (this could be shown in how much damage C4 does, in comparison to rockets. it would take say 1 C4 but several rockets). similarly this grants the benefit of consistent attack angles for LA's on many bases, that have stair ways into them.

the terminal would revert to the default door mode in the event of 2 things. 1: it is blown up (obviously, this is a security measure), 2: the same door setting has been in place for 5 minutes (the door setup used is then locked out for 2 minutes). obviously if the base flips, then they revert back to neutral (like all terminals currently flip to the defenders).

the change in idea, was based mainly around the fact that as you said it could lead to issues of both sides not being able to exert control over doors because they would constantly change sides.

as i was saying, "Sounds good. I would also allow the decoy grenade to create a fake infiltrator image. Make it a bit grainy or flicker occasionally so that people can spot it for a decoy, but also make it walk around within 5m distance of the decoy grenade, it doesn't even matter if the decoy walks through walls that's just another way to spot it's a fake. When 'hacking' a terminal it would remain close to the terminal ofcourse.
That way the decoy grenade has an actual use, especially when compared to the arguably most powerful grenade in the game with it's EMP effects." this makes sense, but may be coding hell, a static image would work if it couldnt be animated.

"For things like gravlifts and shields I would stick to generators and SC's. It would be too tough to keep up with sabotage if literally everything could be sabotaged individually. It's understandable for doorways as fights actually take place there, but things like gravlifts and jumppads are more annoying especially since you can't really plan for one being down. A gravlift breaks down, you have to go all the way back, pick an infil, go back to the graflift and hope someone else hasn't fixed it in the meanwhile. With a doorway there's always an alternative you can pick from."

i agree with this, i hadnt considered the implications of every building having each thing hackable by itself.

everyone here is qouting me like I care
blablablabla LA, LA, LA
if you give 3 different abilites to the infil and just one to the LA ofc it will become useless. obviously the LA and the HA should be balanced after the infil. srsly I have to point this out? IQ under 60 ?
look motuhbreathers, I dont post this in order to get your approval. I dont give a single one about what you idiots "think".
I post this sort of things because there is a chance that some dev reads this and finds it usefull in some way.
i dont care if this abilities go to the infil or the LA, really. I just want demigan far from my post. mozova, you're getting closer to this guy's position. first warning.

*sighs* lets address this from a different perspective. lets say the devs did read this thread right now. do you know what they are going to see? they are going to see one guy (you) acting incredibly self-entitled and immature being unwilling to take any form of criticism, then they will see several other members coming up with other ideas, who are criticising and adjusting ideas in a constructive manner to develop the ideas efficiently.

then they will read the ideas thoroughly (if they were seeking ideas... unlikely but none the less). in doing so they will read the comments, all of them. they will read all the fears people have related to the LA, pre-existing roles, and so on. they will then think back to this particular reaction, how you adjusted for such fears (phahahahaha), what you had about said fears. they will then (most likely) think "to be honest, these guys fears are fair, and he honestly hasnt got a clue how badly this is going to damage game balance. why should we rebalance the entire game just to give one class a couple of new toys when said toys fit another class perfectly and dont disrupt balance?"

having read the critisisms they will probably have come accross the different ideas presented by myself, and anyone else who posted them here, see how we have built upon them to adjust for issues that others bring up (for instance, with me, instead of having every door hackable, have one external terminal with pre-choosen door configurations). ultimately because of my ability to adjust my ideas to account for balance issues, problems others spot and so on, my idea is vastly more likely to be used than yours. if your goal TRULY was to get the devs to take notice, you damn well need to learn to adapt your ideas in light of issues other people have, or atleast explain WHY you dont think they are an issue, or how the issue can be circumvented. for instance you suggest balancing heavies and lights, but how would you give purpose to light assaults again, after removing their sole benefit (manuverability)? what will you do to heavies in light of the new insanely fast dash attacks infiltrators can pull off? how will you adjust the support classes (medics and engineers) who dont have any abilities that put them out of reach from the infiltrator? HOW DO YOU SUGGEST FIXING THE PROBLEMS YOUR IDEAS ARE GOING TO CREATE?

also the insults about IQ, us being "idiots", and "mouth breathers", are childish. maybe you should grow up, or leave the internet to the adults?

dear Krater.

Here's what the mouthbreathers are trying to tell you: The problem isn't that you give 3 different abilities to the Infiltrator, but that you give 3 abilities that fit the LA better to the infiltrator. Worse, the idea's are better than the current LA abilities.

Let's just give you an example. What if I came with the idea for 3 new Medic abilities:
1: An AOE protection shield around the Medic. Everyone in it (including the Medic) will receive 450 shield that depletes over-time and upon damage.
2: A deployable that increases resistance to all players within.
3: An ability that when active will give everyone around you 450 extra shield that depletes over-time, but when you kill someone it replenishes a certain %.

These 3 abilities aren't just copies of the existing HA abilities, they are full on upgrades. And that's what you've done for the Infiltrator. You haven't proposed new abilities, you've proposed full upgrades to the existing (and one non-existing but should definitely go to him) LA abilities.

Ofcourse as you've done with all criticism that even remotely looks like it compares to what I said, you completely go overboard and into insult mode. Naturally it's not your fault! No blame the mouthbreathers for trying to do some logic and pointing out flaws! Those kind of people are terrible right? They don't think, you don't need their approval, ofcourse not! You just need to insult them because... You don't need their approval?
You can want me away from your posts all you want, but if I see something worth criticizing or improving I will do it.

I would very much appreciate the feedback if it was positive.

simple exaple of positive and negative answers:

nice suggestion, but maybe this ability would fit better on the LA.

this is a terrible idea, the LA would become obsolete, we should not implement this.

lol seeing another guy critizising every single word of the previous one does not seem much better to me

exact.

lol lets give all classes new toys. from what I guess all ideas I suggest are way more simple to code than let's say cloak.

some that come quickly to my mind:

give the ha a shield that last's too short but reflects enemy fire. or the suggested max ability down below.

give the engineer an ability to deploy some kind of tool that would allow to make a hole / somehow let infantry pass through walls
or the ability to deploy jump pads, or a portal gun lol imagine a portal gun

give the max an ability that makes it go self-destruct aka full allahu akhbar

the LA or the infil could have, as said, sprint ability, wallwallk ability, see through walls ability, teleport to previous location ability... lots of posibilities for this ones

You see their post, but not the ignored quote, just a blank line where it would have been.
So you can tell they are responding to some1, and if you want to read it you click the 'show ignored content' button at the bottom and it shows the ignored comments.

Doesnt stop them replying to you tho, you just dont get told about it.