[Vehicle] Have we just stopped talking about the Vanguard shield?

There's nothing misleading about it unless you're somehow assuming that I think this increased HP makes the Vanguard the superior tank. I never said that, I haven't said a single think about balance or which tank I think is the best.

All I said was Vanguard is almost twice as tough as other MBTs, and no matter how you try to spin it, that remains true.
In that same scenario you just posted, the vanguard will take roughly Twice as much time to kill than a Magrider, even though it will probably still go down in the end.

Huh...

Who's putting words in whose mouth now?

Here's what I originally said:

And here's your response.

And now:

Notice I didn't mention Vanguard shield being useless or in your word "no impact in any fights". You're the one who put those words in my mouth to begin with.

Also,

Somehow you seem to think this implied that I think you believe this as a realistic scenario. You somehow ignored the "IF" at the very beginning of that post. When anybody with reasonable level of English comprehension would've understood that the post was implying that the only scenario where 2000 temporary HP on a slow tank would matter as much as you thought it does, would be a one tank vs one tank scenario. I'm starting to think that you can't do English.

Says more about your own maturity than anybody else's.

That's exactly what's misleading! The added EHP makes the Vanguard look like it's superior. Therefore you need to use TTK's and shots-to-kill to show how much is required to put it down.

But it's toughness doesn't matter if it still dies faster. Also the Magrider only has to dodge one shell from the Vanguard to already out-tough it when no shield is in play. Add the potential for rear-shots and the Vanguard becomes weak.

I thought you could just download it.
Just be sure your PC can handle this Excell sheet... That might be strange to say, but the TTK is calculated for every vehicle and every side individually. So it literally calculates how many shots are required and then uses that to calculate how long it would take to fire all those shots. Just look at the second and third tab to see how much that takes. I doubt that a PC that can handle PS2 has trouble with it, but I did some of it on an old laptop and this sheet had the power to crush that laptop if I did the wrong calculation.

Yes, you wrote that if I die because a Vanguard used Shield, I would've died even if the Vanguard didn't have Shield. That implies that using the Shield has no implications on those fights. You are literally claiming that the Shield hasn't won a SINGLE fight for a Vanguard EVER.

So, according to you, the Shield is only relevant in a slugging match between two unsupported tanks? It's not at all relevant for when you flank 2 enemy MBTs and use it to destroy both? It's not at all relevant for buying the extra couple of seconds to finish off that target before pulling back into cover?

That has nothing to do with my English comprehension, but rather that I can effectively use the Shield and win fights because of it. And those fights certainly aren't the "one tank vs one tank" scenarios, as I rarely need the Shield for such fights, unless we both run into each other while rounding a corner (pretty rare occurence). I'm using the Shield to win 1v2's, 1v3's, taking out Harasser packs, buying time to get to cover from aircraft, using it to prevent deaths by late-rendering Tank Mines, to buy extra time against C4 attacks etc etc. I'm certainly not only using it only for that scenario you suggest (the one tank vs one tank), in fact, that is where I'm using it with the lowest frequency, as I know how to pick my fights, and which fights NOT to pick.

You can think whatever you feel, that doesn't make your opinion any more correct. Note: I never claimed the Shield was "crazy powerful", just that the Shield definitely had more scenarios in which it was usable than the single one you portrayed. And I'm certainly not claiming that every single death where the VG used shield, would've been a death regardless of the Shield or not. That's simply crazy talk, and you NEED to backup such a silly claim for it to hold any water whatsoever.

Tables didn't show up, which was my bad. They should be in the link below:

http://imgur.com/a/ZKSXA

I've finally been able to show my tables via imgur, but it sure was much more of a hassle than it should've been.

I've downloaded the sheet and tried plotting in the numbers. What's up with the "weapon 2" having a 1second re-fire time (chamber delay) as standard? That doesn't seem right.

Alright then.

Prowler on Vanguard 75% side armor and shield., 17 shots to kill. TTK 24 seconds. ( Regular 68% frontal armor, 14 shots to kill )
Prowler on Magrider 63% frontal armor, 8 shots to kill. 68% Frontal armor, 9 shots to kill. TTK 12 seconds.

Magrider on Vanguard 75% side armor and shield, 12 shots to kill. TTK 35.75 seconds. ( Regular 68% frontal armor, 9 shots to kill )
Magrider on Prowler, 63% frontal armor 6 shots to kill. 65% frontal armor, also 6 shots to kill. TTK 16.25 seconds.

So, unless I screwed up both my shots-to-kill and TTK calculations horribly, based on these results, we can see that the Vanguard can take roughly twice as much punishment than either of the other two MBTs before going down, which, as it turns out, is exactly what the EHP comparison also demonstrates.
As I said before, there is nothing misleading about the Vanguard maximum EHP pool, it's simply a fact.

The 3rd tab is completely blank for me, while the 2nd tab is a complete mess. I've filled in the A+B and D+E columns.

Looking further down at the TTK table doesn't help, as something is really wrong there, as the front armor TTK values are lower than all the other values (with rear TTK values being the highest ). Either I'm doing something terribly wrong, or this seems to be quite an ordeal to go through compared to my way of a simple table.

Also, isn't it a bit outdated? It says the Sundy has more rear armor than any other side, but wasn't that changed quite a while ago? I'm 99% sure blockade doesn't improve rear armor more than the other sides at least, which the spreadsheet says it does. I'm honestly quite hesitant to use it without knowing more, and since it isn't "that easy" to use.

So I overshot the time limit to edit my post but I went over it like three times and kept finding errors in my calculations. However, the end result was always the same, vanguard TTKs roughly twice as the others.
In my defense, it's 5 AM and I should have been asleep three hours ago at least instead of doing math.

Again, when the heck did I say that? You're a worse offender of 'putting words in people mouth' than you're accusing me of. Stop making up painfully obvious strawmen. There's a reason Vanguard shield is hardly ever used for much of anything but to cover a retreat in a bid for the tank's survival by the NC, and in that regard it is very valuable. But it contributes very little offensively, much less "win fights".

More often than not, the outcome of the fight is already determined before the shield ever comes into play. Either the opposing tank dies, it runs away, or you're forced activate your shield to attempt a retreat. The shield works as a second chance card, but it almost never turns a losing fight into a winning one. If you activated your shield to win, it's only because the opposing tank was already far enough behind in the HP% pool than you do, and the shield was just there to ensure a safe victory. The difference of winning by a hair or by a nose. Likewise, if at any point of the engagement your HP% pool has fallen behind that of your opponent's. The shield will absolutely not turn things around for you, only buys you times to run away.

Yes it does, because you were accusing me of something because you misunderstood the whole post.

I call BS. Unless the 2-3 tanks you're claiming to face were already more than half dead and/or single crewed, in which case you would've won with or without the shield. A lone vanguard simply can't output enough damage fast enough to take out multiple tanks, six second shield or not. Even less possible when attempting to kill multiple harassers, unless they're dumb enough to stand still or crashing into each other.

Which are defensive uses. Like I said it's the vast majority of times it's used for.

Backup your claim that you're able to wipe the floor with multiple enemy tanks just because you used the vanguard shield ability first.