If this game wasnt so Pay2Win that'd be nice

"The game is not pay2win at all, you can buy ALLLLL the guns !"

This is what i hear from everybody in this game.
All the time.
And its usually veterans who say this ********
Yes its true that infantry combat is somewhat fair and non Pay2Win but enter a vehicle and youre so underpowered that every single vet will 1st focus fire on you because THEY KNOW that you have no upgrades even though there's 3 other team mates in front of you in upgraded vehicles weather thats sunderers or tanks doesnt matter

here's a few reasons why this game IS pay2****ingwin
1st you cant handle vehicle's as infantry, sure you have a rocket launcher on heavy assault but thats about it ! GOOD LUCK HITTING ANYTHING PAST A 20 METER RANGE ! you need a lock-on for that !
2nd upgrading something isnt enough you need a better gun ! this is especially true on a lightning or an aircraft
3rd ok let me upgrade something... oh wait 2X ZOOM COSTS 500 CERTS totally not pay2win.
4th XP boosts give you more XP which in return gives you more certs. i dont have to explain this to you guys you know what i mean
5th harassers are OP. The people who pay for this game dont have to grind out the gun on top, all they do is get past 1k certs in less than a day because they're "all access members" and simply upgrade the composite armor to the max making them not only hard to hit because they make those ******** turns but also if you hit them it doesnt matter they'll escape to a safe place
if i got a penny for every time a harasser came from behind and destroyed my lightning in seconds before i could even react then i'd have enough money to buy me all access for the next 50 years

and the reason why people think this game isnt pay2win is because of wrel, ofcourse who else said that the game is "pay for convenience" what a load of ********
if this game really wasnt pay2win then you'd NATURALLY see more people in general and also more without any kind of camo or helmets or pretty vehicle lights but the people who spend money on this game think "meh, might aswell look good" and those who say that they didnt spend a dime on any weapon are ******* liars.

EDIT: oh i forgot to mention... implants.

Most guns are side grades
It's pay to sleep
The main upgrades that contribute the most can't even be bought with dbg

It's free to download & play. Some games cost £40+ for the privilege. They can't make it totally free because people don't work for nothing & the Devs need a wage. It's a business or did I miss something.

Well Wrel was right, nothing will stop you to get the same stuff others have on their vehicles except time, which depends mostly on you on how fast you can get it done. Sure you could say it's some p2w type thingy but it's mostly a time convinience trade.

Nope... on everything here. First of all you have a very flexible definition of "Pay to Win". Do you know what it is? Pay to Win means paying real life money for in-game items that both A) You CANNOT obtain In-game, B) Are SUPERIOR to In-game items. In Planetside 2 there are no such items for purchase with Daybreak Cash, nothing is superior to in-game items, any unique weapons are reskins, typically an Anniversary Edition.

What you are complaining about is a blatantly obvious PROGRESSION system, you spend certs to upgrade your gear and your vehicle, just ease-of-use... you have all sorts of different things to upgrade, and all are done in-game. If you want zoom... spend 1 cert for 1.25x, it's actually quite effective. If you want implants, play the game... they're a free drop, same with chargers. if you want XP, again... play the game. Which brings me to my next point.

XP Boosts are NOT Pay To Win... that is an absurd way to look at a benefit of being a Member... there are so few benefits as-is and you complain about the only one people want? This is a free to play game, they need to make money and they do it WITHOUT Pay To Win.

Harassers are not overpowered, a Lightning is actually the counter to this vehicle... if you're being taken out from behind it seems you are unaware of your surroundings as the Harrasser is the LOUDEST vehicle in the game. You have no excuses to make here, you are at fault for all problems described, the game is not Pay to Win.

Play the game... earn your items, or would you rather every upgrade was free and given as handouts so that there is NOTHING to work towards in the game.

all i can offer you is a nice heaping pile of git gud , its money or time , i had plenty of time thus didn't put a cent into the game and had no issues , 10/10 would git gud.

I think the correct phrase for what you're describing is Grind2Win, because almost all upgrades that matter are cert only.

That said, you definitely have a point about vehicles being unfairly biased towards certed tanks. Even lightly certed ones are in a huge advantage in comparison to a stock tank. Something needs to be done about that.

Now the incorrect stuff :

1. Actually, infantry has a fair share of stuff to counter tanks: Rockets, base AV turret, pulling tanks, pulling air etc. And the existing infanty AV isn't that expensive and is often multi-purpose.

2. Infantry and air don't have this problem at all, since starter guns are arguably the best in the game. Spot-on for tanks though.

3. They're over-priced as crap, but literally EVERY OTHER ATTACHMENT IN THE GAME is much cheaper, and tbh they matter little in actual gameplay.

4. Except for ground vehicles, weapons and attachments don't matter all that much. The scary thing about vets aren't their toys, but experience (or so it goes, for he majority of them it feels like the only reason they don't get farmed is because of the OPmissioner and med-kits )

5. If you're getting farmed by harassers that much... not sure should I envy your experience or pity your awareness.


Eh, what's wrong with a little bling? It gives you no advantages. Oh wait, in your imaginary world, servers are free and devs need no money,and everything should be given for FREE!

Also, it's a progression system. Of course not everything is unlocked, you have to work for it so you can work forward to something and feel good about yourself for progressing.

While I certainly aren't a fan of salty, arrogant and elitist vets, they have it right this time, gear matters much less than skill, and a lot can be acheived with starter gear (except for ground vehicles, something needs to be done about that).

What differentiates a P2W game from a non-P2W game?

A P2W game either offers power in the form of weapons and upgrades to paying members that you can't get as non-paying member, or a P2W game has such an incredibly long and acquisition rate for non-paying members that for more than 90% of the time you are forced to use underpowered equipment to fight the often OP weapons of paying members.

PS2 has a relatively short time between upgrades. While you are definitely at a disadvantage in 1v1's when you get straight out of the gate with vehicles, you aren't necessarily useless or underpowered. Especially in PS2, where most battles are of the "a dozen vehicles fighting against each other" you can make yourself count by adding your firepower without being just a nuisance (assuming you don't derail friendly players).

If you want to get into your factions MBT for instance, all you have to do is play infantry for a while and buy yourself an AP loadout. That's all you need to start playing 1v1's. The rest can mostly be compensated by skill, using your allies to compensate for any shortcomings or eventually upgrading your loadouts to similar levels as veterans.

You can't call PS2 a P2W game because the acquisition time is too short, you can still be powerful on other playing fields of the game and almost every standard loadout still has merit in the overall gameplay even without a single upgrade.
The biggest denominating factor to winning and losing as a new player in PS2? It's not the equipment, it's the skill in playing the game. There's tons of veterans who play new characters all the time, and they never complain about some kind of mountainous hill to overcome that simply has to be paid in money to start competing, because you don't need a lot to get your starter loadout in any category and be competing with your opponents.

I can hit targets out to 100m and occasionally beyond with my default ML-7, though it does often require leading and a compliant or complacent target.

I'm not going to defend air in this game. They've made a mess of themselves and the game over-all and they still can't figure out how to even to be happy even within their own ranks.
The C75 Viper is a good Infantry saturation weapon. Against individual targets, its damage per shot is a liability; but, against groups of Infantry, it's good for wacking the lot of them. It kills some of them and causes distraction among the rest.
As far as small arms are concerned, you never really need anything other than your default. You don't even need a BASR to snipe but people are obsessed with the one shot one kill functionality that they place it before the definition of sniping as accurate fire over a longer distance.

Zoom on vehicle weapons really don't do anything but give you access to fine aiming control. x1.25 is the most you'll need for most weapons. There's no harm in splurging on x1.5 if you want.

Yes, you do. The goal of the game isn't getting more certs, nor is it unlocking more things than wnhatever other guy you can point towards, but it's getting more territory (victory points, whatever have you) for your faction. You personally don't even have to be the linchpin of that success, though you do have to contribute.

The Harasser being a powerful weapon platform has nothing to do with the accusation of pay to win.

What do you mean?

Implants have negligible impact. I am certain they make one person or other feel extra powerful but that is an auxiliary benefit and perhaps their biggest strength - they make users feel more confident. Everything else is anecdotal or circumstantial.
Their payment model is abysmal but that's not related to the conversation.

Pay2Win means skipping any kind of progression by using a shortcut
but fine, it doesnt matter then lets talk about the progression system, its ******* frustraiting and more people would play the game if the god damn PROGRESSION SYSTEM wouldnt be such BS
no this does not mean i want everything unlocked from scratch that would backfire on everyone i honestly love the fact that there's so much to unlock thats one of the things i like about the game
tell me how gaining more XP is not pay2win if that very XP gives you 2 cert instead of 1 for example ?
and stop saying that this is a free 2 play game im well aware of that, but why the hell are there other games out there that do it better then ? warframe being an example you can even trade the irl currency DB could easily fix this by allowing players to trade certs atleast ! but nooooo why should they do that...
also i never hear a harrasser come from behind just because they're loud doesnt mean the ingame sounds isnt ****** up
sometimes i cant even hear my own soldier speak or tank fire while standing next to one

"Zoom on vehicle weapons really don't do anything but give you access to fine aiming control" well for christ sake isnt that what EVERYONE wants in a vehicle ? especially when dealing with infantry ? COME OM ! and dont tell me **** like " hurr durr but i can pin point and shoot a heavy assault with 1.25x from 100000 meters away" well good for you but i CANT and many others cant do it either !

the goal of the game is getting more territory ? yeah sure buddy, imagine a day where no vets would be allowed to join and only new players and people up to rank 40 would be allowed to play
i can tell you right now that NOBODY would even know what they're doing all they would want to do is fight in the biggest battle they can find and this is exactly whats happening even as we speak, people even call it a good way of cert farming ! to just stay in one battle for as long as they can

and yes the harrassers weapon platform has A LOT to do with pay2win because PEOPLE CAN BUY THEM WITH REAL MONEY !

implants have negligible impact ? oh really ? well i was running behind an infiltrator the other day who dropped down a cliff and i went straight after him unknowing of the height of that cliff needless to say he survived that fall and i didnt because he had a higher ranked fall damage implant than i did
also even the freaking devs admitted that the implants were a money grab holy ****...

You can buy pretty much everything with certs (that is free - investment of playtime), the vast majority of purchasable stuff are side-grades, and the game's TTK means that newbie gear is just about as effective as anything else.

I've put a decent amount of money into this game but I still use the basic newbie guns for most of my classes.

Agreed, zoom is useful, but i find myself not using my 2x more often than not because the amount you need to compensate for drop increases with your zoom level. So without zoom i have to compensate less, meaning less chance of missing.

Well, when you first join the game you're sent to Koltyr to learn how to capture a base. Surely anyone with half a brain can see that bases change hands, its also not hard to head for the A / B / C point on your map (a normal thing in FPS games) and flip a point as you just have to stand there. Ill agree new player experience can be brutal, but due to skill level and experience, not knowing how to play.

Harassers arnt pay to win, if some1 paid for a harasser weapon then they've paid to guarantee their death if they come across a decent tanker, even in a stock tank.

Tell me, how did you know that infiltrator paid for his implants?
I have every single implant available in game, i paid for non of them.
And i charge what i need through drops.


Like i said in another thread, planetside 2 is:
'Pay to obtain weapons long term players got for free'
'Still get your **** handed to you by those same players'

since youre one of the few people who actually bothered to read my post and are not raging i like discussing this with you
well i would really love to see the zooms price get dropped down to atleast 250 and even that is a lot
i was never able to join koltyr, i have a vanu rank 48 and my TR was rank 8 when i tried it, is it because of my vanu char ? back when i started playing the game for the 1st time there was no koltyr so i wanted to try it maybe even learn something new now i cant cause my TR char is lvl 16

well so far i've had to shoot the harrassers atleast 4 times before blow up many times i miss them because they're small and dodgey but 4 hits is a lot and i dont think he even had composite armor on
the infiltrator killed me a few times before i dropped to my death after that i PMed him and asked how he got the red fall damage implant he said he bought loads of them and combined them, getting to the red implant is insanely grindy not to mention the extra RNG to get the one you want

i usually have a hard time killing vets, its either so that they outgun me even when im the one who engages or they walk in groups of 2 or more

the vets that make new characters know their way around and probably have an outfit they're in all the time
they play with people who help them gain certs/ranks all the time

all i do is join a random squad and then do battle and knowing my way around takes quite a freaking while for each continent

Find friends, get in their vehicles, problem solved.

So the biggest problem you face is the fact that you don't know your way around and don't have the experience/skill yet to compete. This is completely different from "they bought equipment with money and can curbstomp my butt".

As for having an outfit that helps them, also not P2W. Theoretically anyone can do it, and even a newb can join many experienced outfits who can help you on your way. Even without it, earning enough certs to take one vehicle out for a good spin isn't incredibly taxing, and once equipped you can get the certs you need for giving the next vehicle a basic loadout in relatively short time.

So your arguments aren't even about P2W anymore, but about the skill difference and the social help players can receive to get a leg-up. Those are definitely valid concerns to be thinking about on how to make sure new players without skill or social help can be kept entertained (which is different from keeping it balanced, having skill and social help should be rewarded up to a point), but they are an entirely different problem altogether and have nothing to do with P2W.

I agree zoom is strangely priced, all zoom options should be the same price imo say 50 certs, its a simply playstyle descision and quality of life improvement imo, not a strengthening factor. Everyone should be afforded it.

Yes if you can join Koltyr its because you have an 'experienced character' on your account. Anything over BR15 iirc.

What were you shooting it with?
The harasser dies to:

• 3 Titan AP shells
• 3 FPC shots
• 6 (or 5?) P2-120 AP shots

So only 2 reloads needed for each.
Cant remember the lighning shots to kill, but if you have a gunner in he prowler of mag you can kill it without either of you reloading.
So the harasser should not have taken that much abuse from a main cannon, even the lightning will defo kill it in 4 shots, unless you're talking Viper.
Look for the tell tale sign of 3rd seat repairs when fighting a harasser, that can sometimes save the vehicle, it will flash white for a second if some1 starts repairing it, but dont stop shooting, they cannot out rep your damage from that seat as they have only 25%(?) of their repair speed.

Regarding engaging first and still loosing, try aiming for the head, you do double damage if you hit there (in case you didnt know) and theres a distinct sound you get that different to a normal hit to confirm you've hit the head.
If you get hit in the head there is a 'dink' sound like a metal helmet getting shot, if you hear this then they are doing more damage per shot that you.
I feel you pain, and i do agree getting into the vehicle game (or even PS2 as a whole) can be a painful experience, especially if its your first MMO experience, but believe me you will get better, and you will start to win more engagements, simply with more experience.
Its when you start to gell with the game, when you start to understand its flow, when you learn how and where to position yourself and where the enemy is likely to attack from, that the game becomes an absolute pleasure, win or loose.
Once you dial down the unexpected deaths and frustrated moments you will enjoy it more, and you will develop an ability to use whatever you have effectively which will help you see that equipment doesnt win fights.
You cannot buy this experience, you simply have to play.

A final piece of advice, join an outfit, or obtain a bunch of friends you like playing with. Im in a small outfit that barely has 4 people online most evenings, but the fun we have in that small group vastly outweighs the annoyance this game can provide.

Happy hunting!

pay 2 win is where you can buy something like gear that can't be obtained by free players by gameplay. all weapons in this game you can buy to skip the grind (in other words cashing in on who have jobs that keep them well paid but super busy) while those with lots of time can grind for them if they want.

any player starting out with have a tough tiem with stock vehicles, that why you grind certs as infantry and buy some basic upgrades like AP, fire suppression, front/side armor or NAR for general anti-tank use

free 2 play only means free to login and play with content the developers have allowed you to access for free.

"I ran off of a cliff and fell to my death. OMG pay2win!!!"

lol