Complains about Slug ammo?

Well this is a new one...

As my quest for absolute shotgun mastery continues, I finally get around to araxiuming slugs, namely the stock shotgun and the 1st gen PA slugs(And perhaps the high cap shotty).

And as far as I knew, the complaints against shotguns arise from the fallacy that they are easy to aim. Yet, I've had several people today rage in the chat for my using shotguns, even going as far as directly demonizing slug ammo.

So, do people actually consider slug ammo OP? I was certainly not aware of this before.

The thing with slugs is that they supposedly mitigate the one downside that is associated with shotguns: ranged combat. Seriously, outside of melee range, a buckshot shotgun will pretty much just tickle a target.

Sounds like the people that were flaming you in chat were simply a little bit salty that they weren't awarded an easy kill on a shotgun user. They did the right thing to not play to the shotgun's strengths and stay out of CQC range, but most likely weren't anticipating that you were able to fight back at those extended ranges.

As for me, I don't trust myself enough to aim a slug shot. So, I typically I only equip slugs on semi/full auto shotguns and on my NC MAX (which is a cheesy way to kill people, I know).

It's moderately good for sniping/midrange ads. Try hipfiring at an enemy right infront of you and chances are good that you can empty your magazine without a single hit. Iwouldn't call it OP.

Slugs are OP on the full auto shotties IMO.

True, the purpose of slug ammo is to increase your effective range.

But, it's not like other attachments that simply provide positives. Slug ammo exchanges ease of use and damage for range(Which they aren't really easy to use in the first place, and their terrible CoF doesn't give them all that much range).

So with slugs, you have a gun with okay damage that can sort of hit stuff at mid-close range and requires a lot of aim.

And like I said, the usual complaint is that shotguns can get free kills in CQC, is it not? And though even that isn't true, shouldn't slugs be removing that factor? You have to aim a lot for slug ammo, you said it yourself.

Slug ammo is underpowered.

I'm using a slug Mauler right now and struggle to get kills. Previously I was using a regular shotgun and getting kills left, right, and center.

As others have stated, CoF is a huge issue. With a rifle or carbine it's quite doable to be shooting and moving at the same time, and that's often the best course of action. Forget doing that with a slug shotgun though! As soon as you start to move your CoF is ruined. Even when stationary and crouching it's difficult to hit erratically moving targets with a slug shotgun, and of course if you're doing that then you're very vulnerable to return fire.

Iridar51 provides a lot of info and advice about slugs in his new (I think) shotgun guide. This was of particular interest to me as I have just started using the default semi auto shotty with slugs. the damage Iridar reports, of 500 up real close and 350 out to about 20 meters matches my experience of two shot or three shot kills.

He also advises ADS and standing still for shooting because of the CoF mentioned above. With panic hip firing I have killed a guy at seemingly impossible range (40 meteres or so) with a couple of shots and missed guys nearly in my face.So the randomness is also clear to me (in a perverse way it is part of the fun).

So, I find it super powerful IF it hits - is that OP? Don't know..........don't care. Slug shotty is fun, at least in room clearing and limited range base fights.

As an Engineer main I can blam away without worrying about ammo and I have actually gotten a few kills by strafing across doorways and just unloading from the hip into a room - exactly the opposite of the advice, which is that you need to aim a slug shotgun. But man, that noise (I reckon the noise alone has killed a few guys).

From my experience the Slug shotguns are ok. However the pump action is annoying to use thanks to slow fire rate.
Semi auto shotgun functions as good mid range semi-auto sniper (so long as you go with the baron or the free ones, as the variants with only 2 more ammo have less velocity making them less effective in range)

Now the auto shotgun with slugs turns the shotgun in to automatic sniper rifle. It can be realy powerful but im not going as far as calling it op.

Also people tend to hate everyhing that kills them, no matter what weapon, be it gatekeeper, smg, shotgun, knife, rocket launcher. They simply wont even try to play better but try same tactics that get them killed every time and then blame someone els for it.

The only times I've really ever heard slugs referred to as OP is when they are in a dual-Mattock MAX setup.

For Auto/SA/PA shotties carried by infantry, AFAIK they are pretty much universally considered "meh" unless they're in the hands of someone with exceptional aiming skills.

I personally love 'em. I slugs exclusively whenever I pull a shottie. No pellets for me.

Maybe on Mattocks, but that's really it. Slugs completely negate any sort of cheese you get with a shotgun and turns it into a ****** battle rifle.

If you really want to get ragetells, put slugs on a pump-action shottie and go around OHK headshotting people in close quarters. They love that.

Which is what I've been doing, and while I've managed to get an S-rating HSR with my Uppercut, I still consider it one of the most garbage weapons I've used to date.

90% of the kills I've gotten, I could have gotten faster and easier with my Butcher.

Well, I wasn't saying it's effective or anything. Just enjoyable. If I'm outclassed/outnumbered by the enemy, I definitely am gonna switch to an LMG or AR. But for just screwing around and practicing my aim (and for the 'Lulz' factor) PA shottie + slugs is a great combo IMO. It's something I choose when I'm bored of automatic weapons.
Making slug shotties an 'effective' option (i.e. a weapon you'd choose in a situation that really matters), though, might be difficult. People already see shotguns as being cheese machines; buffing them could lead to some legendary QQ-ing.
Do you have any specific ideas on how you'd like them to be changed?

Ever see what a 3.5" slug can do to someone?

Big ouch.

What about a .50 BMG? Yet in this game, a 50-cal isn't even lethal unless it's a headshot. Lol.
It's about fun and balance, not realism.

I'd actually like to see shotguns revamped as a whole, not just slug ammo.

Personally, the main issue I see that needs addressed, is the absurdly tight margin for error. Find yourself 3 meters out of range? TTK is doubled. Cursor is 3 degrees off center mass? Good luck dealing decent damage. But then, in order to justify themselves being so punishing and random, they offer the occasional 2 shot kill, allotting you a TTK you couldn't have gotten otherwise. But even then, you could practice getting all headshots and have yourself a TTK similar to optimal shotgun TTK, but out to medium range as well.

When considering how to re-balance shotguns, I first look to the other CQC options available, to see any niches that can be filled.

Mainly, I see the SMG's. High TTK, easy to hipfire. I think that shotguns could instead be our fast TTK, ADS CQC option.

In order to do that, first I would have the margin of error brought up to some degree. I think this could be done by increasing shotgun's RoF, but decreasing the max damage per shot. Make the minimum shots to kill of 3, but with an average of 4 shots to kill the TTK would still be passable. With a damage model of 450 and a RoF increase to even it out, while still being slightly slower then before.

Second, all the randomness of shotguns would be done away with, at least while ADS. Moving CoF would be brought in line with other weapons, slugs included.

In order to tackle the issue of range, all shotguns would have their pellet spread tightened, their max damage range increased, and their velocity improved.

Obviously, each specific shotgun would have specific nuances that would effect it's style, but the general theme would remain the same.

As for PA shotguns... A little more difficult there. They are already balanced on on the most extreme of slopes, being able to OHK and whatnot. I think the very small range is fine on them, but I'd like them to just be able to OHK consistently inside their effective ranges, assuming you have the accuracy for it.


In their current state, I think slugs would be actually highly competitive, if they just didn't have such huge CoF. But as you said, if they were just buffed right now, they might raise to much QQ.

There is no such thing as balance in a game without immutable physical laws.

I hate using shotguns. That stems in great part to my complete lack of awareness and not moving effectively to place myself in the best position to use the weapon to it's full potential. I just seem to be inept in using one so I avoid them at all cost.

Pump Action shotgun slugs feel weak. I know 800 damage at 10m is far from it, but considering you have to give up a bodyshot OHKO in close range, in exchange for a headshot OHKO a bit further out, as well as the difficulty with CoF forcing you to ADS, means you're going to be screwed if you don't have an exceptional amount of skill.

The real issue is in it's massive CoF. I have gotten to the point that I can say that I have pretty exceptional aim. But, I still cannot utilize the OHK headshot of the PA slug, simply because the moving CoF with slugs is so massive that most of the time, your shots will flat out miss, or just allot you a body shot if you are lucky.

While that is the main issue that plagues PA slugs, there are a few smaller nuances that still make it a less competitive weapon. First, being it's x1.5 headshot multiplier, which screws you against HA's. The other one is the very slow bullet velocity/strong bullet drop.

IMO, the main issue has to be fixed, there is no debating that. Once that is fixed, I'd like either the former or the latter of the smaller issues fixed. If all three of those aspects were buffed, I'd go as far as to say it might be OP, but that's why I only suggest one of the two being buffed.

Now the former of those smaller fixes solve another issue I have with PA slugs, the poor OHK range. Now, having the random CoF it has, I can't honestly tell if I'm actually getting headshots at medium range, but even if I were getting headhots at that range, it can only OHK out to 22 meters for most targets. Now, I don't want it's headshot multiplier all the way up to x2, that would be a bit too strong. But honestly I think it'd be in a really good place at x1.75, which would mean a headshot within 10 meters would deal 1400 damage, just enough to take out an overshielded HA.

One last issue I have is the 1st gen PA vs. 2nd gen PA issue. Currently, the 2nd gen PA has a slower refire and reload speed, with no advantages to compensate with slug ammo. All I'd say for it is to increase it's slug damage by 50, and increase it's max damage range to 15 meters, along with the other buffs I recommended. It's definitely a smaller issue, but it effects the game quality and looks really lazy on the dev's part.