[Suggestion] Add randomness to initial aiming

I wouldn't know. I only quote and comment on things that interest me.

Another way of saying: "Agree with me or GT.FO!"

As you aim your CoF decreases until you're ADS, this phenomenon is most noticeable on sniper rifles which take longer to scope in and have larger hipfires.

Sounds to me like you got killed by a bolt action in CQC. This is more luck based 90% of the time and when there is that 1/10 sniper who says he can quickscope and actually CAN, congratulate his/her skill and don't cry about being on the receiving end of it.

Everybody dies in Planetside 2, if you don't like it don't play.

If you think its bad for infiltrators, NC are the only faction that get LMG's AR's and Carbines with this feature as well. (It's all the 200 damage weapons)

By that I mean zero first shot deviation.

To help those who are ignorant. Crouching mid firefight give only the benefit of relocating ones head to a location that is likely not currently being aimed at.

As it stands (as in it has functioned this way for quite some time), crouching when shooting does not activate, change, shrink or otherwise alter the CoF you have at the time of crouching. It will take ~.5 seconds of immobile, combat-less waiting for crouching CoF values to be reached. Failing to allow this "cool down" to complete will result in a no effect.

AKA. if you are shooting then crouch, your CoF is the same as when you where standing (or larger as you have now continued to fire).

Again the "only" benefit to mid combat crouching is to move your head out of enemy sights.

this however I'm curious about... why do you feel such a thing is needed?

No.

Also where did the infiltrator touch you?

What are you being killed by specifically? Check their weapon setup on death screen.
Because maybe it's not quickscoping (which causes autism) but a close-range BASR with a holo sight instead of scope.

The "Your account can be terminated for any reason or no reason" catch-all clause handles that.

However Daybreak is not wont to ban macro use due to the revenue it generates in Everquest's multi-boxing area. When you got a guy 12-boxing on Ragefire, that's $179.88 a month. Or $89.94 for the normal six-boxer. That's quite a bit more than the average PS2 player, which is also why PS2 is a little lower on the priorities.

shooting with sway is an obnoxiousness that a more arcady game like Planetside absolutely does NOT need.

Doesn't even ♥♥♥♥ing ARMA have hold breath? Yeah... pretty sure it does.

If even ♥♥♥♥ing ARMA doesn't do something because it's too obnoxious of simulation, then damn sure noone else should... they're king of obnoxious simulation mechanics.

"macro crouching" lmfao... yeah, cause people don't just automatically hit 'ctrl', 'RMB', 'LMB' when they get into firefights by rote. (I even have 'ctrl' mapped to a thumb button on my mouse)

Hey hotshot, guess what, they aren't macro'd, it's just an automatic action.

"the only thing that can be done is to add it via software, as a small period of inaccuracy after starting the ADS animation."

This was what I was going for actually. If a Macro can be made to automatically perform a combat task with perfect efficiency the system needs adapting to prevent it. In case of quick-scoping to overcome the hipfire COF, a delay so your enemy has time in the moment you scope to move away.
Similar to how they removed the ability to deconstruct your vehicle.
Similar to how they added a system that if you log out within X seconds after getting hit, it still counts as a death to prevent logout macro's.
Adding this kind of stuff to prevent macro's from being effective and giving unfair advantages over players without macro's can be relatively easy.

But that's not how it works. CoF contraction isn't instantaneous. CoF decrease speed is 20 degrees per second.

Let's use TSAR-42 as an example. Stand move hip fire CoF is 6.0 degrees, stand still ADS is 0. So going from stand moving hip fire CoF to stand still ADS will take 6 / 20 = 0.3 of a second. Not a lot, but not instant. Needn't remind that scoping in itself requires around ~0.2 seconds.

You sound crazy to me. So using a mechanic for exactly what it supposed to do - make your fire more accurate - is bug abuse?! Would you want for the first shot after ADSing to always randomly miss?

You heard it here, folks. ADSing is cheating.

You already have to be perfectly stationary to eliminate the moving CoF that would otherwise be applied, in most cases, even at relatively short distances, you'll miss if you're moving.

Quick scoping, as it were, is the equavalent of pringing the gun up to a proper bracing position, and firing before you've done more than point your gun at where you think your bullet will go. It's a skill, if you can do those calculations without looking through the scope, you should be rewarded for it.

This is a skill based shooter first, and frankly, it needs more emphasis on that fact.

If you're holding your breath to take your shots, you're already limiting yourself.

Sure, it's harder, but when you can account for the scope sway, which already sorta imitates breathing in it's soft up and down movements, it feels great when those bullets land home, and you didn't have to fight with the crutch that is the hold-breath action, and as you get better at it, you'll find you're able to get a lot of shots off more accurately, and quickly.

Now I'm not saying that the hold-breath is useless, far from it, but if you can learn to use it only when it's absolutely necessary, you'll do better, and hate it less... there's nothing in the game that says you have to use it, it's a self imposed regulation.

EDIT: I cannot words tonight.

FYI, ARMA III actually does implement sway from breathing. Even if you're standing completely still, your firearm will slightly move back and forth. It's greatly magnified if you happened to have been running or are wounded (and a bunch of other factors that go into it).

It makes for an interesting mechanic where a "well-rested" ambush or defensive force has a significant advantage over an assaulting force that just finished a 200m sprint. It certainly reduces the "run and gun" aspect and instead rewards tactics and planning.

Then again ARMA III weapons are insanely accurate compared to PS2 weapons... so one might think that PS2's CoF is somewhat like weapon sway. Might be interesting though if they implemented a "fatigue" meter like ARMA does, increasing the CoF for both hip and aimed fire based on how "exhausted" the shooter is.

pretty much 100% convinced that is what people do, they then assign the macro to LMB and hey presto.. As long as you hold your shot till the right time youll never miss.
Proof - check youtube for cqc sniper vids, its clear they all do this.
So much for Higby and his '1 button = 1 in-game action' that is clearly not enforced, they dont even perma ban hackers.........
Ive also seen 1 button macros for shoot+knife, these ones are easy to detect since the death screen only shows the knife damage and not the secondary damage source from the shot.

Cheaters, glitchers, exploiters, macro users, PS2 seems to actively support and even encourage these actions through lack of dev care / attention to it.

Dispatching enemies while scoped in CQC without being able to quickscope takes more skill. Also, crosshair overlays...

I wasn't sure if scoping gave you instantly pinpoint accuracy. If it was, it would have been a form of overcoming the hipfire COF where you shouldn't be able to. Since you would be aiming with hipfire and only use the ADS for it's increase of accuracy. This way you instantly overcome the tunnel-vision a scope gives, the reduction of movement speed and the weapon sway in the case of snipers. It would be even worse if you used it as a Macro.

The fact that you can use ADS for better accuracy is not a problem, the fact that ADS might have been used for it's advantages without the disadvantages is what is a problem (which does happen a lot in other games). Hell, even if it only gave an advantage it would still be a problem if people used it this way, as you negate the disadvantage of hipfiring (large COF).

You're complaining about the individuals.
Not the mechanics.

Scoping in and scoping out animations are the disadvantages, even if CoF contraction was instant.

It's not like you can perfectly aim with hip fire crosshair, but for the sake of argument let's say the user will also use crosshair overlay. This is still something that only has any effect on the first shot, and this doesn't really matter for any weapon except for snipers.

TBH, I cannot comprehend of anyone who ADSed a weapon in this game and still thinks some macro can be used to get some sort of advantage out of it.

Quickscoping being problematic, I feel kinda called out so why not, I'll bite and try to explain how it looks from CQC Sniper perspective.

OP - one word in my opinion gives perfect summary of your suggestion - bollocks. It isn't necessary for one, and two it's plain stupid since this IS a FPS, RNG is one of most stupid things to add in such a game.

Perspective of "Tipping aim button", your client shows you activity of every player in your field of view with slight delay "ghosts" of player characters basically. This tends to be perfectly visible in terms of quickscoping since action itself requires very fast reflex to begin with. Therefore it will happen from time to time that you won't even see Infiltrator in question doing ADS animation on your client, despite the fact that they've done it on their client.

Macros - you'd need to be an idiot to use macro when it comes to operating Sniper Rifle in CQC, regardless whether it is SAS-R type, or "longscope" higher tiers one. Breaking it down to two examples provided.

Example I - ADS/SHOT macro. Pointless, Iridar already provided explanation of that one :

Even under assumption that one WOULD use macro, it's still forced down till ADS CoF time which is slightly higher than scope in, and in reality you'd only cause yourself problems by forcing down macro which idiotically harms down your versatility, by always forcing same action.

Example II - SHOT/KNIFE macro :

You are trying to use bugged as **** "feature" which frequently lags, showing guy who killed you pre-last time as some sort of EVIDENCE? Seriously?

Riiight... Here goes another explanation. Under assumption that once in blue moon death screen works properly and doesn't lag out. Do you even know WHY it shows only ONE source of damage? Because it discerns between PLAYERS not WEAPONS as a priority. At least as far as I know, I'll be honest here - never really cared about this bugged deathscreen - so I might be wrong about priority between player/weapon and instead of how I see it(vide : I shoot you with SAS-R to the crotch instead of head since I don't like your toon in particular, then I finish you off with let's say Mag-shot it'd show only damage from Mag-shot, given no other player pitched in) it might as well simply be messed up by simultaneous events (vide : any situation when same player is ONLY source of damage, but with two weapons. For sake of argument let's say you managed to survive AI mine and then got shot in the gut with SAS-R the exact moment mine dealt damage)

Bottom line : unreliable evidence never seen it show 2dmg types from same player, "proof" invalid.

Then actual explanation of how Shot/Knife combo works, again I'll repeat one would have to be an idiot to use a macro in this scenario, since what for?

Here's how it works. You shoot pointblank, and simultaneously with shot press quickknife button, without any macro. Time difference is so miniscule it is irrelevant. Now why would I deliberately limit myself by using a macro for quick knife, which can screw up with either rifle rechamber time or my movement since knifing slows you down from sprint to regular run/walk.

To be fair, this one is more doable than your first example in terms of being viable. Yet still it's pointless effort. Then again it might be just my perspective since I dislike idea of macros for multiplayer to begin with, and value individual decision making according to circumstances.

As it is for perspective of how CQC Sniping looks when stripped down to basics :

1. Target acquisition
2. Stop moving for split-second to ADS
3. Shoot as soon as CoF stabilises and run
4. Rinse and repeat

Points 2-3 are separate, since you still need to wait for CoF to settle down even if shot seems simultaneous to ADS.

TL : DR

There is no need to "fix" by making harder something that requires high amount of skill to be semi-decent with it already, main problem in perspective of guy sniped is due to nature of game that you see on your client what already happened with delay. One thing is implementing hard limits to improve gameplay due to legit reasons, something completely different is requesting a nerf to certain thing because party calling for nerf doesn't understand the game.

If you are paranoid about macros or autohotkey scripts, I'd say go ahead make them capital offense punished by permanent ban except whitelisted specific situations [ Idk maybe other dbg games precedenses, or testing some bugs with 2 accounts with characters of same faction<meaning as long as you gain nothing - it's legit for bug fixing/testing> ]

Personally I couldn't care less whether macros are reason for getting banned since simply I don't use them, so go ahead. Currently as it stands I doubt anybody specialising with this playstyle does use macros, since it'd be for one, not what they're looking for, and secondly it'd do more harm than good anyhow.

MCG as sniper rifles, I like!