[Suggestion] Liberator Revisit (Why it is Medicore)

Disclaimer: I sunk a lot of certs into the Liberator, probably a little over 10,000 certs. In addition, I am here to explain why the Liberator is mediocre and needs a revisit to for some adjustments. Lastly, I understand that the Dalton is for Anti-Vehicle, Shredder for Anti-Air, and Zephyer for Anti-Infantry and Duster for just fun.

Dalton vs Scythe's Hornet

Both weapons deal 2,000 direct damage, considering both Hornets hit the target. ESF's hornet have numerous advantages vs the Dalton due to ESF are maneuverable; therefore, able to hit weak spots of tanks. Furthermore, the hornet is by far more accurate than Dalton because when the hornets are fired, it goes directly to where the cross hair is aimed. On the other hand, the Dalton has bullet drop making it less accurate at range.

Pilot vs Gunner

It is very frustrating for me as a Pilot when I do not know if the belly gunner is actually hitting a target. I basically hover up in the air hoping the belly gunner hits some targets. There are no indications in the game other than verbal communication that the belly gunner is hitting a target. Lastly, it is hard to find dedicated or effective belly gunners that knows how to aim; however, I have an idea that will make Belly gunning more attractive to those new to the belly gun.

Tail Gunner

The tail gunner is the least attractive because the weapons are mediocre; therefore, most liberators run with two people.

Fire Suppression

ESF maxed out recovers 25% vs 12% for Liberators. ESF have a major advantage vs liberators due to this because when an ESF is critical, it returns them to half HP or nearly half.

Tank Buster is Suicidal

Due to the increase speed of tank shells to match AP rounds, it makes the Liberators highly vulnerable when using the tank buster; especially, within 50m range for max damage. One AP round will take a Liberator to 50% HP and combined with numerous Anti-Air, limited maneuverability, most of the time it is game over when hit when one AP shell.

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Suggestions to make the Liberator more effective to describe a true gunship in the air

1. Change the way the scopes look like tank vehicles like in the picture below. This way, it will still take skills to aim the Dalton; however, it will increase accuracy to gauge bullet drop.



2. When the Belly gunner hits a target, the red notification appears on the pilot screen

3. Fire Suppression, either nerf ESF to 12% or buff Liberators to 25% as well.

4. Tank Buster, add 215 damage if firing from 150m away. So it looks like this: 334 dmg / 50m, 215 dmg / 150m, 143 / 300m

5. Shredder, make default 70 Shells, max magazine size at 90.

6. Drake or G30 Walker, add another upgrade slot known Shell Type
a. Increase rate of fire
b. Blast Radius for Anti-Infantry
c. Increase Bullet Speed

7. Missile Launcher, add another upgrade slot known as Rocket Type
a. Increase Range
b. Dumb-Fire, no lock-on, used for attacking vehicle, no limited range
c. Lock-On, Fires One rocket and gunner must keep the target in sight

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Please share your thoughts.

What the utter F***.

Libs were complete godlords forever, now that people can fight back, you want that removed?

Ah, most are minor suggestions; however, other suggestions are stretching it which is why I am considering feedback. In addition, I played Planetside 2 when it first released; therefore, I remember how powerful Liberators were at the time. I feel Liberators are lacking due to I can get way more certs in a ground vehicle or flying an ESF. Lastly, a really good ESF pilot can definitely takeout a liberator single handily, and I am one of those pilots.

My main problem with your arguement is that the MBT, should be able to fight back.

Until they add dedicated AA weapons for tanks, this is their only way, and I'd argue hitting an airborne target with a MBT's AP cannon is a show of skill.

My current problem with the game is the effectiveness of the ESFs, which I feel, need to be dialed back.

The tb needs no buffs as a full mag with extended will destroy a lightning and burning an mbt. It is the ONLY nose gun on the lib worth using and is very effective.

If you want to buff something buff the spur or vector.

Tailguns leave as is. Walker/Coyote-things is for AA only though can be used on the ground in a pinch, working as intended. Drake is a super accurate basilisk, working as intended. You want to kill infantry better? Bulldog. Anti-infantry/vehicle only but can be used as a in a pinch, working as intended.

I'm all for dropping esf fire suppression back down to 12%. I never understood why it got buffed to be the esf version of a medkit.

Other than that I'm on board with the other adjustments.

MBT does have AA ability; however, most MBT setups are for ground superiority and hitting a Liberator with a tank shell is way easier than an ESF. AP/Heat/Splash tank shells all have the same velocity when fired. When an MBT is alone, then of course, the Liberator should easily prevail. Lastly, I'll save ESF talk for another time.

Thank you for your feedback and support for my adjustment suggestions. You are right that the tank buster can destroy a lighting (and I will add MBT) as well on full magazine if only hit in the back of the tank; otherwise, puts the tank at half HP. Vector or Spur, yes, those can use a buff. I use the vector for Anti-Air, but...it is okay. The tail gun, it is working as intended, but I am trying to find a way to make the tail gun more attractive because getting a tail gunner, I find, is fairly hard to get.

I'm gonna have to say no to all of them except for the hit indicator for the pilot when the belly gunner hits something. Libs are already extremely good and there might be a handful of ESF pilots per map who can take it out by themselves, or at least, that's how it is on Emerald. Everyone else is just going to have to take cheap shots from a safe distance, or get the hell out of there. Considering how cocky I've seen A2A libs have become, it's good to see them mess with the wrong ESF sometimes. An A2G loadout shouldn't have air dominance, but it quite often does.

Also the point about the TB damage is strange. 350/50m - 143/300m means the damage gradually drops off from 350 at 50m until it bottoms out at 143 at 300m. The intermediate value isn't necessary.

Ouch, no thank you. Except for the possibility of Vector/Spur buffs.

Also, as a quick note:

A friend of mine who is essentially my dedicated bellygunner would argue that it's not that the tailgun is too weak, it's that the other two positions are too strong. But then, he has a very different idea of what a Liberator should be (all three seats with equal killing power, full crew working together to bolster killing power against single specific targets).

the lib can seem mediocre to unskilled and unpracticed users, or when crewed by random players that don't communicate. it's Dunning-Kruger. you have to be good enough at it to accurately judge it.

If ground forces ignore Libs for even a half a minute it can pretty much destroy everything on the ground. Pair this with the fact that an aircraft can show up basically at any moment without warning and AA has to be strong enough for it to not even get close to a fight and to want to make it leave in a hurry. Then added on top of this is ground based AA is basically a free kill for virtually anything on the ground so it needs to have long range to make up for this fact.

Air's main role should be detering ground forces, finishing off wounded targets that are trying to retreat, and quickly transporting/inserting infantry into a fight. They should have never been given the super strong weapons that they have.

All aircraft's firepower needs to be toned down to about to what the Valk's is and then AA toned down a bit.

A good ESF SHOULD be able to solo a liberator (bomber) with ease. It's unbalanced that they can fight back without needing CAP support and or convoy tactics. I rarey see Libs lose to ESFs that aren't gangbanging the Lib.

Libs are if anything still too powerful. I vote remove the nosegun entirely, and prevent any seat swapping between pilot seat and other seats unless landed. Then we can talk other changes. I think the pilot notification when gunner is hitting is a good idea, though. The Dalton should get way less damage done vs. air. Shredder is NOT an AA weapon in design, it happesn to work really really well as one, but it is supposed to be the Basilisk option... and all belly guns are meant for ground attack only. It's rediculous that any belly guns ca neasily get air kills. The tailgun is fine in current form.

i thought you were trolling but you're actually asking for Lib buffs?

Why the MBT is mediocre.

The AP cannon does 2075 damage maximum. Due to elevation restrictions and a longer reload time, you can see the Dalton is vastly superior. The Liberator and ESF can simply turn every way to have 360 degrees angles on all axis.
Also the Lib has a larger arsenal to choose from. AA, AI, AT and mixes are all good possibilities, while the MBT only has good AT and limited AI. It only has a secondary turret like the tailgun of the Lib, lacking an extra high damage gun. The Lib is more durable as it has less effective counters.
The Lib has more acceleration, a higher top speed than the MBT, and the Lib can fly.
So the MBT has less guns, less powerful guns, less adaptability, less fire angles, less acceleration, less top speed, cannot fly and has more and more effective counters to content with than a Lib.
Oh but is does have more armour, which is countered by less hit anyway if the lib.

The Year of Hell as I call the time when Liberators were the absolute gods of the battlefield is why I now go straight to dedicated AA if I see any even near the group I'm with. I don't want to go back! You can't make me re-live the suffering!

My only thought about the Liberator is that thing shouldn't be allowed to have Afterburners.

Let's see... It can sidle right up to an ESF without showing up on radar and matching its speed. Can practically instagib with tank buster, can instagib with dalton, and can have a dedicated AA weapon. Independent gunners covering all but the top. Which is nothing if the pilot has ever heard of rolling. And if it touches you on it's pilot screen then guess what? Yes, another instagib without taking damage. If the dalton misses on your screen but hits on his the guess what? Yes, of course, another instagib. Meanwhile a skyknight setup can expect to expel half their ammo and vanu help you if its crew has a chance to get out and rep. You won't damage it as fast as they rep between reloads so you better farm the engies. This of course all relies on the crew being half competent. If not, then yes they can be cert piñatas. Inb4 someone says "but hitting an esf with a dalton is hard". Yes, but you get a lot of chances and only need to get it right once. I pulled it off twice without practice.

>Liberator
>Mediocre
Pick one.

I so agree with this.

You won't get liberators buffed. Forumside flip flops it's opinion from time to time. Before late 2014 everyone thought liberator was a poor weak vehicle. Nobody complained about tankbuster and people laughed at shredder. In the liberator update thread people suggested and praised things like making dalton forward mounted and having a shredder at the belly at the same time. And that armor needed buff because it takes a vanguard 4 seconds to kill it.