Spawn campers outside the room ARE the spawn camping problem.

I agree 100%. but people like banging heads into walls.

They already offer FREE xp just for sitting around the point instead of around the spawn room.

I have an idea.

Previously I was attacked for suggesting that people who are IN the spawn room shooting out don't get kills/XP for killing from safety...

How about we ALSO add a 3 second window where killing people leaving spawn rooms don't count (no death, no kill, no XP)

This way, spawn camping is 100% unrewarded by EITHER side, and is only ever done for the PURE tactical advantage it offers (preventing enemy from leaving spawn is the most efficient way to protect the point... shooting any enemies in LoS before leaving safety of spawn is most efficient way to push out.)

In both case we're talking about no or low risk activities getting free XP.

Some people... hell, MOST people, only do stuff they get rewarded for.

This would reduce people willing to be on either side.

Defenders should redeploy, attackers should defend the POINT.

fairs fair right?

People complain about getting spawn camped, but being spawn camped is a choice.

the problem is that camping the shields is a better tactical option than taking positions along the way to the point or at the point.

that's the problem.


nothing to do with people wanting to stay inside shields, or people wanting to shoot at them.

any solution that involves a weapons lock, removing exp from kills while inside shields, or removing exp from killing people that just spawned, or whatever, is being disingenuous and completely missing the source of the problem.

the real question is, how do we help defenders get up to a fighting position without letting that "aid" become an advantage?

under the current system, this cant be done. the time based point system simply cant be tweaked and the current spawn camping gameplay is the only logical conclusion. please understand this. spawn camping IS the best way to capture a base under the current system. if we want this to go away, then we have to change the system.

Your a lying idiot making up quotes. It's not a choice when your population is only 15% on a server . I don't know how much of your ignorance I can take. Populations and zergs are out of control and as a result there is too much spawn camping people want to play not redeploy every 5 mins because you only have 15 percent population. Devs need to step in and fix that problem first and give defenders more exits and underpopulation bonuses.

Are you complaining about spawn camping or being on a server with only 15% of the total population?

If you are on a server with only 15% of the population, what do you expect to happen when you go up against the other factions with 42.5% which equates to roughly having 2.25 times as many players then your faction...

I agree some spawn rooms need additional teleporters as Goretzu explained will make it less easy, but those exits will still get camped. HOWEVER! getting spawn camped is ABSOLUTELY a CHOICE. If the Enemy has your spawn surrounded, then you have lost the fight. It is your choice to keep running out of the shield to die and be farmed, or you can redeploy at another base and regroup and make a better fight of it next time.

If you are only 15% of the pop, and you are outnumbered on the server by both the other factions by a factor of 2, then you should move servers or move to one of the other factions. This is also a separate issue and not one that is the result of spawn camping and my advice would be to switch factions or servers if the pop balance gets that bad. DBG can only do so much if players aren't going to log into your faction.

There is dozens of competitive shooters out there. If I wanted a competitive firefight, I'd play one of those. The list on Steam is longer than I'd care to look through.

I'm here to win, and I have no qualm about camping a spawn room to make that happen. The issue isn't that I'm camping some dumb little casual till he logs off. Its the fact that they want to sit in 'protection' and get a few extra kills. Kills mean nothing, but they aren't smart enough to realize that.

If they were brighter, they would actually redeploy to a previous base and mount a counter attack. No casual zergling has ever successfully rallied from a spawn room in the last three years. The best defense always being the best offense.

So here's what should really happen. SCUs added to every base. Give attackers the tools neccessary to storm a spawn room and wreck it. Let the noobs, the casuals, the derps, and the farmers (don't those things mean the same thing?) get wrecked every time they sit in a spawn room.

This way they either conform to the flow of battle and counter attack, or quit. Both options work for me. Because I will be totally honest. I would rather my own teammates Quit because they get wrecked all the time, then to sit idly and uselessly in a spawnroom. I would rather my opponents quit for the same reason.

Quality over Quantity of player is what I desire. And its my honest believe that it is quality players that spend money. The derps, noobs, casuals, and farmers aren't spending money. Because why would they need to farm if they are paying? Memberships, boosts and the ability to buy weapons means farming isn't needed. Freebies do the derpy crap. Not all freebies do this, but they are already playing objectively and not sitting in spawn rooms. So they will be unaffected.

Leaving the lower population and joining the larger one is why we have the problem.

No you are absolutely wrong. Its the people inside which create the problem.

The ones outside are acting tactically and in accordance with the objective...once the cap is taken pin the spawn so they cant retake the cap. Its the ones inside the spawn racking up cheap kills and starving other fights of their numbers and assistance which are the problem.

Remove the spawn heros and the side taking the base would be much more spread out, some might even redeploy if they arent interested in cap XP, its knowing theres rats in the box which creates this stupid magnet effect.

Ultimately because theres a safe shield and DBG give them lots of rewards for cheesing kills from behind it they arent ever going to go away and this spawn problem is never going to change.

I always join the under pop... much more fun, sooooo many targets.. the best kill streaks..
I do not understand players that join the larger over pop...

besides the offensive language.. really no need for that... you do have the choice of another continent.
Populations are not "out of control".. what does that even mean? Please elaborate.
Zergs are not "out of control".. zergs are easy targets, zergs get eaten alive all the time..
Sounds like you need to join better squads.
I do not see your problem, at all.
If you give the under pop a bonus.. then more people will join the under-pop, thus negating the point of them being under popped, then the bonus disappears..
You can earn many more Certs/XP by being on the under pop side.. then you can ever earn by being on the zerg or over pop..

One more thing: Most Veterans of this game do not get farmed, they do not get stuck in a spawn room, and they have no problems with zergs....

Crux server on ps4 TR have 15 to 20% pop all the time. On Palos ps4 server VS have same problem. You have to experience it to feel the frustration. Both factions are miserable to be on, warp gated constantly NEVER winning an alert. I don't mind losing but out teched, unreasonable odds, spawn camped, and losing lattice spawns all the time is just too much. After getting br 100 and several auraxium items I don't want to give up. Things need to be fixed for under populations.

None of these are 5 seconds from the point. I think you're under-estimating how quick 5 seconds pass. The only one that is are the AMP stations with A point in the main building, and the spawn room directly below, and that's only as a LA.
That said I do not agree with his idea.

A lot of the people who have played since beta, HAVE run into the problem of sitting with a lower pop faction. Heck, i started on jaeger way back when. VS pop was 18-20% a ton of times. it merged with waterson, and again, VS pops were between 18 and 26%. it's only since becoming emerald that the VS pop stabilized out and changed. That's just my journey though. All sides have had to deal with low pop. With it comes a change of tactics and mindset.

Yeah, with 20% pop you can't sit and slug it out, so what? You work on your hit and run tactics. Or use deception. Have two people grab a base and start the cap, while the rest hit a base farther over. Zergs are not smart, and they will go where the easy certs are. While they sit at the empty base waiting for it to cap, you grab the one a few lines over. You then book it the hell out of there.

fights mean more and you will get better. having to fight 2 to 1 or 3 to 1 odds makes you real good, real fast. Soon enough people start recognizing when your outfits show up and they get antzy. That's the pay off of lower pop.

Finally, don't let it get to you. It will swing back around and then your on the other side of the coin, wondering where the enemy is and wanting to leave the zergs to find good fights.

If I'm one of the 10 defenders at a base being zerged by 96+ players, that just means more people for me to shoot. So, bring it on!

I don't get where this population imbalance has anything to do with spawn camping. Spawn camping happens when the pop is 33-33-33, in fact what determines an alert win in that condition is the side who has the least number of people sitting in spawn rooms and are commanded by competent PLs that get them to redeploy.

You can't take a control point from a spawn room.
You can't take a base from a spawn room.
You can't win an alert from a spawn room.

That means staying in a spawn room means you will lose, everytime. If any change needs to happen is one to remove people from the spawn room (SCU's help with this). This removes the ability from players to automatically lose.

You may not get exactly ON the A-point within five seconds, but you certainly get close enough that the people holding the point won't have a chance to do anything about it.

Also, I'm pretty sure with the MAX charge ability, I can get on point on most of the bases listed, and many more.

It doesn't matter if you leave the spawnroom to attack from the spawn area or counter-attack from the next hex if you are the only one to do it. the issue is a player driven one. if you want people to counterattack from being overpopped you need reinforcements and present defenders to rally at the next base and pull vehicles to counter attack in force to push the enemy out.

You need leadership to make people want to counter attack and make people want to help you by being reinforcements.

This is the thing if you have at least 3 well seperated exits it makes it very difficult for attacker to camp all the exits unless they have ridculously overwheleming force (and in fairness if people are Zerging to that scale and still get shot standing in front of spawn shields then I call that Darwinism to be honest).

In some bases this is more or less the case now (although they could still be improved), even with just 2 exits, when they are very well seperated.

The little mini-teleporter rooms would be more than fine in a 3+ exit base for small bases.

This is essentially the problem that a lot of people seemingly just don't see,

You cannot build tactical play into the game with negative mechanics.

People hope for some sort of counter-attack nirvana, but the reality is very different.




In PS1 (with destructable spawn tubes), people when badly outnumbered would just dig in in the tunnels and farm the attackers, they didn't counter-attack any more or any less than in PS2.

Furthermore the success or failure of any counter-attack in PS1 hinged on exactly the same things as it does in PS2 - having enough numbers and/or organisation to take it....... and the reality is that is not a construct of the counter-attack, but rather reinforcement with time, because if you had those things to begin with you wouldn't have lost the base to begin with either.

PS1 and PS2 were and are about numbers...... so really the only ways to make the game better is by 1) making spawn exits harder to camp and 2) by actively encouraging people TO come and defend (not discouraging them).

This is why you have to be very, very careful about using negative punitive game mechanics.

You never ever want to punish the outnumbered in your game, because being outnubmered is more than punishment enough.

And it is why I very much doubt the Devs will ever use negative gameplay mechanics.

Because even though the 3 faction systems is probably the best self-balancing one there is, it is not fool-proof, if one faction gets a big enough population advantage the whole game (on that server) effectively fails (and then usually the server population just dies).



It is always, always better to try to encourage the outnumbered to stay and to play!