Is the game now Pay To Win?

If the starter weapons were crap itd be pay to win, but the starter weapons are all really good, easily enough to be competitive. Also, dont new players get like 100 certs per BR up to 15 or something. Furthermore, who cares if its pay to win, get good or pay up. F2P is a model to get people who wouldnt play a pay to play game to at least try planetside 2, and hopefully support it on some level later on if they like it.

You're forgetting the more recent addition of BR unlock certs. Where getting to BR 15 gets you a total of 1000ish certs, I think. Which is basically enough to buy one of these other guns within 1-2 days, maybe even one play session, depending on how much someone plays it. Either that or kitting out their favored classes a lot faster.

not P2W
can get anything that matters for certs
certs are easy to get
standard guns kickass
this game is not warframe

Its an advantage that can be nullified after a weeks worth of play. So what if they can spend certs on other things. So can anyone else, even free players. What you need to realize is firstly that cert gain is infinite, and upgrades are not. So what if they can get NAR, I can get them a few days later. So what if you can get flares, I can get those a few days later as well. Then what you going to do once both of us are fully certed. How is your cash going to make you win? It isn't. That is the distinction between pay to win and pay for convenience. When power does exist in this game, it is capped. All that money is doing is getting you there a bit sooner.

I suppose that explains why so many ace pilots use the External Fuel Tanks in place of any missiles.

Coyotes are a direct A2A upgrade to the fuel pods. They should be because they aren't that great for much else, while fuel pods are the far more versatile option. The reason most aces don't use them is likely more due to the fact that they are the cheese. Or it could be because they like having more afterburner.

There are weapons in the game that are a direct upgrade to other weapons for certain situations, but that isn't P2W. In order for it to be P2W, those weapons would have to require real money to be obtained, or have an absurdly high cert cost that most people wouldn't be willing to grind for.

Yes it's been pay2win from the beginning. No one could possibly unlock all the weapons you realistically need to play this game "as intended" without spending hundreds if not thousands of hours first unlocking everything as just a ****** infantry. Several MAX loadouts, different vehicle weapons, rocket Launchers, archer etc. etc. I spent a lot of money on this game when it first came out and that meant I could tackle any situation and field any loadout my outfit needed from the start.

I think once you go above a certain time required before you're effective then yes, the game is pay2win. You could argue "but you can unlock everything as a free player", yeah, but would you? It should've all just been flair, camo, ornaments etc but SOE just couldn't help themselves.

Money > graphics > design > gameplay. Pretty sure it's supposed to be the other way around but 99% of all game developers follow that edict without hesitation or remorse.

You seem to be under the impression that you NEED those things to be able to contribute to your team or even be effective when you really don't. A no certs anything that works with their team is useful and contributes fine, and even without spending a dime with experience more than certs they contribute more to their team.

You don't need a special load out for every situation to play the game or be useful and contribute greatly. You're talking about completion and specialization.

Having everything is not "winning" unless winning TO YOU means collecting everything. Otherwise, no it isn't, every class out of the gate can do its role decently to some degree and a BR0 can kill you with relatively similar effectiveness as a BR100 by the game's mechanics.

Not yet, but looks to be heading that way. First with the implants, and then with the price changes.

The chargers run out a LOT faster than you earn them (not just a little, but a lot). Sold in random packs so that you don't get what you want until you purchase several of them, or get really lucky. And then they go and add a 4th tier to them to squeeze even more money out of players since it drains faster, yet MIGHT be marginally better than the former Tier 3. Tier 3 and below got nerfed. So now players run without charge in their implants half the time, or they pay for the combat advantage.

The price hikes were just a flat out slap in the face.

Last I looked implant packs could be bought with certs or cash and from all I've seen of them they aren't groundbreaking in power either. Handy sure but powerful? Eh.

Now the implant system itself is eh as a whole, but to try to call it going toward pay to win is silly or on that road is silly too, if anything the packs are very sinks ment to siphon off certs more easily, with cash being there because you'd be crazy as a F2P designer not to allow cash for those.

I'm with you on the infantry stuff, but what about new players having to grind for so long to be effective in the air? You tell us that A2A lock-ons and Coyotes are a necessary evil to help new pilots, but their existence just makes a Stealth/Flares loadout almost mandatory, meaning new players have to grind more certs to be able to have fun flying. OR they could give in to temptation and use real money to buy the very weapons that are ruining their gameplay... is that what you guys prefer?

Could you honestly look me in the face and tell me Coyotes/Lock-ons are a "sidegrade" to the AB tanks?

You don't need any other weapons in the game than the ones you start out with. Yeah, not exactly exciting or cool, but that is the reality. You can unlock the other weapons faster, but they don't necessarily make you better. This is to answer your question "Is the game P2W?"

Any other argument you bring up is irrelevant to the discussion you made. The game is not P2W. If your friend is saying 'all the other cool weapons...' yes, they cool but not necessary by any means. If anything, they'll just get disappointed and probably complain that the 'cool weapon' they unlocked is absolute trash...

I'm trying to figure out why you think Coyotes and lock-ons are a necessity for new players. People acquire skills through time and dedication that allow them to beat people in the air. Then they use that skill to win in the air. You're basically complaining because they aren't handing people an easy counter to player skill. And even if they did give out free coyotes or lock-ons, those experienced players would still destroy new pilots. Lock-on mechanics don't even that playing field in the way you think they do.

Now heres a question about the term pay to win. Is it pay for something that's not otherwise attainable? or being able to pay for an advantage? or both? If the definition of pay to win is to be able to pay and gain something that's not otherwise attainable the game doesn't have this as the only unattainable things for earned in game credits is purely cosmetic. Now if your definition is pay for an advantage non pay players dont get tho not very big i would argue it does exists.

Now the thing i would argue is the advantage here is the increases resource gain its not that huge in the grand scale of things but there are a few battles where i find myself throwing alot of sticky grenades and do actually use up all my resources for some quick easy kills and i believe that being able to throw a bunch more all the sooner is indeed an advantage you can argue how much of an advantage it is or isnt but it doesn't change the fact that it is one.

In a 2 and a half hour play session about 2 days ago I earned about 250 +48 certs. Another session netted about 350 total. If I were to login, that'd be another 48 certs.

That's enough for a weapon and some attachments for it. And if I were to play for about an hour or so, I'd have said new weapon fully certed out.

Not too shabby for some casual play over 5 days with some gaps in between. A newer player is going to play quite a bit more than that. I'd say a dedicated player could probably get 2 weapons a week, or one weapon and some certs spent elsewhere.

Now I am All Access. Which gives me a nice little boost. But why wouldn't you all get all access if you intend to play seriously? You get a 50% exp boost for a month, 500 DBC which can be used to buy stuff and maybe even a exp boost that stacks with the membership benefit.

If you're playing more casually than I am, then getting new weapons isn't a priority. Just login, kick back and blitz out on your favorite legal (or not) substance and play for fun instead of for competition. If you want to be competitive, spend a bit more to get your stuff quicker.

I personally see it as no different than Paintball. Most people can get by on semi-autos and grav fed hoppers. Or even rental gear. But if you want to play on a static team.. you're gonna want to get the powered hopper, electric trigger, and perhaps some other gear that gets a little pricey compared to a 7 dollar rental set.

PS2 like any other hobby is something you get out of that you put in to.

The XP bonus stuff is negligible, but the resource gain is definitely paying to win. Fortunately, the current resource system is pretty generous, but if they ever made resources much more scarce, that would be a huge issue.

Even there though, or at the worst of STO, it wasn't (as far as I am aware) "pay = you will always win", but rather "pay for an advantage".

Personally I'd say it was anything you could get an advantage with through paying over not paying (in gameplay most certainly, or in avoiding grind if it really just avoided a massive grind).

The only bit that might be is things like maxed Sensor Shield, simply because it is difficult to run that without buying stuff (and genuinely impossible if you are collecting other Implants). The only way to really keep that running 24/7 for a lot of/most players would be to pay for it, and it gives a very decent advantage.

Its more than a sidegrade than a straight up advantage. Most (excluding the TR/VS default snipers) starting weapons are still competitive compared to the other guns.

$$ saves you some grinding but it doesn't give you a significant advantage.
PS: I say this as someone who has not spent any real money on the game

Did the cert bundles for DB cash make it any further than Reddit? I think that would be pushing the game more in that direction.

Errr no. I'm complaining because they ARE handing people an easy counter to player skill, but they are making it A LOT easier to get that counter with real money than with certs.

And I know lock-ons don't really even the playing field for new players. That's actually the other point I'm trying to make. The devs claimed lock-ons were put in the game to benefit new players, but they don't actually help them at all. The devs should either remove Coyotes/A2A missiles completely, or buff AB tanks so that it's actually on par with the various lock-on missiles.