VS Assault Rifles and Carbines need 5 more rounds

No one is really claiming that damage tier isn't bad, but only VS weapons have both those bad damage tiers as well as the smallest damage per magazine.

10% slower reload speed for those extra rounds sounds about right then since the Gauss rifle only has a 10% slower reload than the VS1 while having 14% more damage per magazine.

Under fire = use it. Not under fire = not use it. Rocket science indeed.

Gauss Rifle = 167@600 or 1670 DPS
Pulsar VS1 = 143@698 or 1663 DPS

Gauss Rifle S = 167@577 or 1606 DPS
Equinox VE2 = 143@652 or 1554 DPS

So not only do the VS have less damage per magazine but also lower DPS.

Well, maybe you're right. If we look at it from another side, a +5 round per mag would be a welcome buff to currently underpowered 143 @ 652 - 698 VS and NC weapons, even if it wouldn't cure the real reason.

I don't think VS carbines are in desperate need of a buff. A few of them aren't so great, but there are enough extremely solid options that it doesn't end up mattering. VS ARs are pretty garbage though and could use some assistance. I actually think their LMGs could do with some help too. The Orion/SVA-88/Betel are fantastic, but they're all functionally pretty much the same gun and all of the other options are awful. If you don't like that style of weapon then you're up **** creek, and with those 3 likely getting significant nerfs in the near future it isn't looking so good.

And even then, if you wanted to restrict that buff to only apply to sub 750 ROF 143 carbines and assault rifles it would go a long way since the highest ROF 167 weapon is 632, of which is the same DPS as a 738 ROF 143 weapon. So the Zenith would be the highest ROF 143 weapon to see this change so as not to make the higher DPS weapons OP.

VS guns reload so fast I rarely find this to be an issue. We have some pretty awesome carbines. I'm in love with nearly all of them.

I completely agree with this.

Either the new VS faction trait should be accuracy above everything else or the under performing weapons we have (which are the majority of our weapons) need to be buffed to not be downgrade versions of TR/NC weapons with the useless trait of no bullet drop being the only defining characteristic

If you think thats all you need to know about the shield you're clueless, obviously yes you use it to absorb more damage, but because of the speed reduction many times turning it on will just get you shot more and burn precious overshield energy that could be used when you do get in a more advantageous position, and often just letting your regular shields take the hits is more useful.

no, its not that simple.

LOL

Yes it really is that simple.

Like maybe activate it before you peak around a corner if you know someone is there but outside of that only activate it under fire.

Not every HA is the MLG stats.

Some HA's actually play the classes role.

Having a high KDR is literally the class role for HA.

what the **** is this supposed to mean

so, pop when you're going to get shot by vehicle/max, don't pop if you won't? isn't that exactly the same thing as "pop when under fire"? except you're not using your class's full capabilities by not shielding against infantry, therefore you're bad

After overshield energy is completely drained it automatically shuts off, and you're no longer slowed. That's one of the main reasons why HA shield is OP - its balancing disadvantage is only active while the advantage is active as well.

When fighting in close quarters, as any class, often your only choices are to win or to die. HA shield is the only class ability to provide a distinct combat advantage in that situation. Medic heal is also in the same category, but the advantage is much smaller.

Yes, there is a place for player skill. A bad HA will waste his overshield energy on nothing. Same thing with every other class. A bad LA will burn all his jet pack fuel and fall down and die. But how stupid a player has to be to actually do that on a regular basis?

Bad Infiltrator will have next to none benefit from his cloak. Likely, he'd be harder to find if he hadn't used his ability at all. This can't be said about HA shield at all. This ability does not depend on player skill nearly as much as every other ability.

True, a great HA will utilize his shield energy better. In 98% of engagements this doesn't matter at all. For a bad HA overshield will absorb 650 damage. Same as for a great HA.

People that park their tank on a hill and spawncamp infantry have given a bad rep to people who actually try to support allied infantry with their tank. But both people use the same overpowered platform, and both people seem absolutely the same from the receiver's stand point.

Same goes for HA. I've seen some people try to actually play HA as a tough guy that lives to take damage so others don't have to. But they have to use the platform designed for a completely different purpose - 1v1 domination.

Rather than pretending the HA shield is not a problem, and blaming the people for using the shield to farm stats, we should campaign to redesign the shield so HA can actually perform his intended job without giving him a gamebreaking advantage.

NMG/Adren Shield are so hard to use guys. Even after studying for 6 years to earn my master's degree in HA Shields, I wasn't anywhere near prepared for the extreme challenges that it presents. I still have huge problems with it. Like sometimes my mouse will be completely drenched in grease due to my perpetual cheeto fingers, causing my thumb to slip when I go to hit M4 to activate my shield. Sometimes I'll unexpectedly come under fire, necessitating shield use, but I'll be too busy scratching an itch directly inside of my bumhole. If anything I think that HA should be buffed.

let me explain something very simply.


If you NEED to use the shield to survive your doing it wrong.

If you HAVE to use the shield to survive your doing it right.

I hate most of what makes the VS, especially their players... my God, their players are biased beyond reason... but the ARs and Carbines have always been the part of the VS where I've looked at them after some fire and gone, "...This is a glorified water gun."

Supposedly they have reload speed and low recoil, but slap a fore grip (I argue the compensator is optional) on just about any gun, even the notorious, jittery TR weapons, and accuracy issues become severely slanted towards the user, not the gun. As for reload speeds? Last I checked, NC are actually pretty much on par across the board. As if this doesn't make things worse, the non-CQC VS ARs and carbines are like gimped versions of TR guns, and their accurate and CQC versions are like estranged clones of NC weapons. And finally, a little known fact - try comparing muzzle velocities. VS generally eek out a slight advantage, however it's admittedly marginal to the point of negligible in an argument.

And let's not get into bullet drop - the only times bullet drop matters is with semi-auto sniper rifles, or when a silencer is equipped, and really, the silencer is what justifies the no-bullet-drop on VS automatics. Otherwise, it's a useless little perk in the grand scheme of things.

And let's not forget that their SMG's are literal side grades to each other - same DPS, just different magazine sizes and damage models. At least the TR and the NC get the choice between high burst damage or lower sustained damage, though ironically, the NC's lower sustained is still superior to the TR's low sustained (damn those extra ten rounds!) Thing is, the Sirius is practically a carbon copy of the Blitz, but the Eridani follows in it's AR/carbine cousins footsteps in being the "equivalent" weapon of the armistice and cyclone... only generally less impressive.

Basically, there's a reason why the ONLY gun anyone ever hears any praise or flak for is the Orion.

But what should be done regarding VS weaponry? Haven't got a clue. I've racked my brain hard several times and I can't come up with anything that wouldn't either be gimmicky and potentially not all that useful, or brokenly OP, and we don't want to give the VS too many options. It'll just make it harder to pinpoint what should be nerfed later.

All I can really come up with that will have the weapons function differently but without being OP or UP might be applying the heat mechanic to their automatics, but still retain the need to maintain an ammo supply. Basically, cut reloading out of the mix entirely. Then the mechanic can be tweaked until they can achieve something that will allow them to dump 5000-6000 damage in the same time frame a T1S cycler or gauss rifle + tactical reload might with proper cooling control.

The easy way out would be giving them 35 round magazines but... that either obsolete's the NS automatics, or the NS automatics still obsolete some VS automatics. Probably a little bit of both. Unless someone really wants to use a silenced automatic over 50m...

Great post.

The problem that the VS and PS2 in general has is a limitation in what can or cannot be done to create unique yet balanced faction flavour. You've got high damage per shot, you've got high rate of fire. What's left? Accuracy? But accuracy is overpowered if you're good at aiming and worthless if you're not (and currently it doesn't really exist either, thanks recoil patterns). Bullet drop? Nobody cares about that. Heat mechanic? Unlimited ammo OP! Engineers out of business! Heat mechanic with limited ammo? Not gonna make a difference.

If PS2 was balanced differently with longer TTKs and a wider range of damage/firerate profiles, it'd likely be easier to find a sweet spot to slip the VS into. Right now there's nothing unique about VS. We've got the same guns as everyone else, except for the sweet 800+ RPM TR toys or the 200-damage NC tools. Instead of those we get a bunch of middling 143/698 weapons that don't do anything in particular very well.

There's just not enough freedom for weapons that have meaningful differences. I blame short TTKs.

VS weapons have fast reload, low recoil, and no drop at the expense of a higher then normal first bullet recoil. You guys should narrow this discussion down because VS carbines are pretty awesome.