I have take some time out today to put all three empires against each other in a hopes that everyone questioning balance will have a close look at what I found. Now a quick sum up of my finding. All the weapons I have tested, 4 for each empire which consists of a sniper rifle (semi-auto), Carbine (matching damage), lmg's (all default) and finally max AI (all default). Originally I was only comparing the max AI but thought what the hell. Now originally I wanted to use fresh base weapons but this is where the balancing gets ruined. I realised this cannot be done, I needed to compare matching weapons, weapons with the same values (roughly). The reason for this is that when looking at the default carbine unlocks there was on faction that did not have a matching starting weapon compared to the other two which had a damage value of around 143 compared to 163 for the rest. This was an inbalance for my comparason. I tried to keep everything brief but if you would like to know more about why I see specific weapons listed as balanced just ask. Hopefully this will put an end to the balancing issue, especially with max AI. To be noted that two weapons which where compared required purchase. The Gauss SPR - 325 certs and the HC1 Cougar - 1000 certs. Now I do have to say, I did use my current vanu account for the weapon comparason and seeing as I was unsure which carbine was default I went with the Pulsar C. If I am wrong in this please do tell me and I will rework my findings. My view on balance is that each compensate for the other but the damage value of the Gauss SAW needs to be lowered to match that of the other factions and all factions should have similar default unlocks. All recoil descriptions are based of those at 50m ranges, starting from the center bottom base line in the vr training facility. Medium ranges for me at 30m ranges. Close is 15m ranges. All max unit testing was directed at the max chest units at a distance where the crosshair spans the width of the max for each faction. Furthermore all testing is based upon my gameplay, in words my ability to adjust and counter recoil. All equipment used where base only, all attachments and any ammo typing was removed.I also have comparison sheets if anyone is interested
You could have saved yourself some time with the sniper rifles. they are EXACTLY the same. And the Cougar and Pulsar C are the counterparts to the Razor GD-23 not the mercenary. And frankly this little comparison is hardly proof of anything. You cherry picked weapons as you liked. You didn't even do enough of them to have a good sample size (no medic less than 1 weapon per class...) And your comparison is pretty much just your opinion. How is this supposed to be a "final resolve to balance"?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...OSWNaanFqSUVxLWc&f=true&noheader=false&gid=92 hasnt been updated in a while but 99% of whats on it, still works today. Save you alot of time
Thank you for that but my look into balancing is all gameplay. Numbers are all well and good but how do they test on the field so to speak. I used numbers to select the variety of weapons to test making sure they are all either similar in gauge and/or default unlocked. A gun can say effective at medium range but exactly how far is that and how do others compare at the same distance. It is very useful though so thank you.
While I do understand you look on it but I was not testing against human players, I was testing the weapons in gameplay in how they handle when used. Vr trainging whilst it is not against human players it does and did allow me to accurately experience all weapons and their attributes such as effective range. The fact that it is not against human players has no relevance to gameplay use. Hope this helps you understand more about my testing.
Right.. because controlling recoil/bloom against a stationary bot is the same thing as controlling recoil/bloom while tracking the crackhead movements of human players while also trying to dance around to avoid getting your head blown off. Yep... not relevant at all...
I did not mean to come accross to say that it has no relevance but when you are looking at the weapons in terms of balance, accuracy is better than assumption. Stationary targets allowed me to track the distance reliably for each target excluding the max units. All the recoil tests where done at the same distance of 50m which shows clearly the differences or in cases similar patterns. You cannot get that when playing live with other human players. There is a reason firing ranges exist both in game and in life. It was easy to detirmain a weapons gameplay range in vr compared to reading a weapon stats that effectively are vague and suggestive.
We're establishing levels of reality within nested virtual simulations. Solid Snake would probably love to jump in on this argument.
wow in addition to my objections above I completely missed the whole VR thing. How about getting some actual experience? There are so many problems with this comparison. 1. VR only (VR is ok for some practice and to adjust your aim but you need to use these things on live) 2. Cherry picking weapons (and not even the right faction equivalents...) 3. No attachments which completely changes how the weapons actually behave when used by players on live. (testing weapons without attachments is completely removed form actual gameplay...) 4. Insufficient sample size ( 4 weapons per empire? Really? And the sniper rifles don't count since they are the same so it's only 3...) 5. All opinions. (and from a player with little experience to boot: http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/player/TululaBooBoo I am assuming this is you...)
So long as the game is balanced asymmetrically there will never be widely accepted balance (that doesn't mean the game can't actually be balanced). This thread is just one of many threads approaching the topic of balance. Even if you are capable and objectively look at the differences this wouldn't change the perception that due to this differences one side is functionally superior to another. Not all of it is wrong, either. For example NC has higher vertical recoil which a lot of players are used to and it's easier to control if you are used to those other games with strong vertical recoil. The players who aren't good at that come in and complain how every NC gun is terrible and all the other factions have much better guns (they know, they tried them!). What that really means is they should probably be playing on that other empire, cause those gun types work better for them, but due to other factors (social, time invested, etc) they won't and instead choose to come here to complain how the game isn't balanced.
Honestly, If I was to do a selection of weapons spanning all classes with each empire, noting my findings down for each, would you spend the time reading it all. I know the more points I use the better the findings are but I wanted to keep things relatively short. I do stress this is based upon my gameplay, my skill if you want to say to combat recoil and adjust. Everyone is different but I feel the majority of everyone thus far is not getting the understanding. Every weapon thus far are fairly balanced, saying that a specific faction needs a buff/nerf is not the case most times. People are always complaining about balance so I tried and by the looks of things failed to put all empires on level ground removing complex variables such as attatchments which while do change the usage of weapons I felt where too complex to add. The idea of this thread was show how all empire weapons are effectively similar which means no empire has the upperhand. Of course if your weapon does more damge it is superior but not if you have a clip of 30 compared to a lower damage weapon with a clip of 50. Everything balances out enough for fair play but also not enough to make each weapon lets say unique. I do not see the relevance of my stats. I have clocked in hours of gameplay for all factions accross multiple accounts (mostly because I forget my pass >.<) I never claimed to be the best player or a pro at this game. I just see things differently to how everyone else see's them, my mind works differently. My findings are up for debate and im fine with that, I encourage it but if you spend enough time with the weapons you would see they all stack up. Max ai weapons more so. The weapons are balanced enough as they are and neither faction needs a buff/nerf... That is my opinion.
