[Suggestion] HEAT & HE need to be buffed abit.

That's exactly what I was thinking when I made that post. If I wanted to run HE in a tank, it just makes more sense from every angle to run it on the Lightning. It's faster, more agile, and the HE cannon on it is actually pretty good. For anti-infantry, the Lightning's agility is more important than the Vanguard's durability. The Lightning's HE cannon also just happens to be better. So my thought is, even if the HE cannon on the Vanguard were buffed, why would I ever want to pull it when the Lightning as a platform is just superior for AI farming compared to the Vanguard?

Not to mention, the AP cannon is perfectly serviceable for killing infantry as long as you maintain good aim.

And on top of that, if I REALLY wanted to see infantry farmed, I wouldn't pull a Lightning OR a Vanguard. I'd pull a Battle Bus. Dual-Fury/Kobalt Battle Buses are currently king when it comes to smacking around hordes of infantry. And as many a Prowler/Mag/Lightning driver has found out the hard way, dual-Fury Battle Buses are even king in AV engagements.

It's not like Iridar's dislike is unreasonable.

I think AP rounds are the best if you can aim.

Then heat rounds are a little weaker but have a lower skill cap for players who can't aim as well.

It isn't a problem of HE/HEAT being too weak. It's a problem of infantry AV being balanced around HE/HEAT being strong.

Even when AP accounts for >50% of tank usage, infantry don't pull AV weapons less. They actually do it more.

Tanks don't need overly powerful tools that facilitate farming, but infantry don't need overly powerful tools either.

^not viable? Dude....what are you smoking?

Something tells me you haven't really figured out the niche these weapons fit.

By far the weapon that has garnered me the most hate tells from the opposing faction has been HE rounds.

If you're KDR doesn't explode while you have the HE rounds equipped you're doing something very wrong.

Ap is still an instant kill. As long as something can kill you in one shot....Your probably going to want to destroy that thing pretty quick

After auraxing the AP cannon, I've started working on the HEAT. I've found the AP is superior in almost every situation. I think I have killed maybe two infantry with the pathetic splash damage. You have to score a direct hit to be effective, so you might as well roll AP 100% of the time so you can wreck vehicles.

Although I would like to see more splash damage on the other two cannons, it seems silly to pull a Vanguard instead of a Lightning for anti-infantry duties. Vanguard is a vehicle killer, not an infantry farmer/zerg-stopper.

He doesn't like vehicles in general. But that's besides the fact. He's entitled to his opinion. There's no reason those other guys should attack him personally for it.

But anyway.. compared to AP, HE is in a poor state. Here's what I would do:

Lightning HE: To be quite honest. I'm not sure what I would do with this one. It looks fine on paper. Buffing it seems like it'd be out of line. Its already got a pretty high DPS. Not as much as the Viper of course. But without nerfing the Viper, I can't see how we'd make the Python HE better without making it over the top. Maybe extend the blast by about a half a meter? Maybe drop direct damage by 200 and increase indirect by 150?

Vanguard HE: This one is easy. Swap the Direct and Indirect damage values. So it does 1000 on direct hit and 1300 out to 1m. Nerfs it against vehicles, but gives it a slightly higher kill radius. Would have the highest kill radius of all HE, but comes at the cost of a 4s reload (currently has this drawback without a bonus).

Magrider HE: Drop direct damage to 950, increase indirect damage to 1200. For the same reasons as the Vanguard. They would have similar DPS values, but the Magrider would be capable of dropping it slightly quicker. That's a blessing and a curse. They can ohk more infantry faster.. but they have to stay put to do it (no turret).

Prowler HE: This one I wouldn't change. I think its in a decent spot and if I'm not mistaken, its the only HE cannon still in use because of it. If its under performing compared to HEAT. Then nerf its direct damage a little and increase the indirect by the same amount. Could start at 50 or 75 or 100. Wouldn't go too far.. it has two barrels to work with. Theoretically it can OHK peeps with direct hits and it can do so twice, while causing massive damage to those near them.

Seems like comeone just doesn't like to try all aspects of the game, wasted all his certs on infantry only options and thinks that in an open fight or mid-way base should be able to take out any armor.

If you want infantry only gameplay, there are games out there for that. One of the Few unique things PS2 still has is the ability to have large scale armor battle with supporting infantry, along with primarly infantry only combat spaces.

Infantry have started to rear their ugly faces out onthe the open fields where vehicles SHOULD be king and have had AV nerfed to the point of having no Splash (I can deal with that since sabot rounds have minor or no exsplosives) And HEAT has minor splash.
And HEAT got nerfed Into the point of requiring an inordinate amount of ammo to drop a single troop unless you plant it on their face.

And I'm not even going to go into what these changes have done to the Liberators effectivness VS armor with it belly mounted weapons.

Basicly, Bring Back Effective Vehicle weapons. And just make more enclosed combat areas for bases for infantry combat where vehicles only have a suppressing effect but cannot suppress important parts of a base like the spawn room(s), Capture points, and SCU.

Not to mention AP's higher velocity and lower drop actually make it easier to get those direct hits.

The way I see it AV weapons in general are currently way too versatile. So the only time you would want to pick up a AI weapon over an AV is if it a pure farming tool.

I don't mind vehicles. If anything, combined arms, with tanks and aircraft and infantry fighting alongside each other sounds like a huge fun. I just don't like how it's done in PS2, where any vehicle can oneshot an infantryman without a chance to fight back, and vehicles have absolutely nothing else to do.

Wasted all certs? Please. I'm BR100. I've unlocked everything I wanted long, long time ago. I have certs invested in all kinds of stuff, and if I needed more certs for something, I'd get them without breaking a sweat. If anything, that would motivate me to actually play the game.

"there are other games for infantry combat" is actually false. I've been looking for a long time and to this day have not found a single online shooter that I would like more than PS2, despite all its flaws. The only popular thing I haven't tried is CoD, but I probably wouldn't like it either, because of short TTK.

And what about Viper?
I know a time when it was able to one shot infantry with a direct hit. It was acutally good if you were able to aim.
A time, where i could actually dominate whole crowds of unskilled/-experienced drivers with this weapon and my rival chassis.
Nowadays neither a volley or a lined up shot is viable against single or crowded infantry.
Not to speak of its effectiveness against armor.
Sure it's an all purpose weapon which should be a jack of all trades but master of none ( is it called that way?), but if it works not even mediocre in any of those, then it's just a waste of time and certs.

Its not that AV weapons are too versitile, its that AI weapons have been nerfed so much over time.

Here is what I would do with HEAT cannons for the Vanguard,

• Reduce reload time by 0.75s from 4s to 3.25s: This will reduce the issue with follow up on the splash taking too long. Currently due to its greater velocity, AP is arguably the best AI cannon, due to its superior velocity making direct hits easier. A greater rate of fire, but still a OHK on each direct hit will solidify the HEAT cannon as superior AI than the AP cannon.
• Reduce reload speed certification from -0.5s to -0.25s: THis nerf to the certification means the fully certed reload time is 3.0s, down from the current 3.5s This solidifies the HEATs position as starter weapon, enabling it to perform close to its maximum potential with minimal cert investment.
• Reduce direct damage from 1600 to ~1500: I'm not sure of the exact values necessary, but the damage per shot should be nerfed to keep the new DPS closer to pre-change value. It should still have a higher DPS to make up for the loss in alpha damage.

Magrider, and Lightning can get something similar, though I'm not sure about Prowler double shot.

If the OHK splash distance was increased, it would be good for hitting around corners, which no NC top gun is well suited for.
(while the TR have the marauder, and VS have the PPA.)

Silly that they turned back on nerfing infantry AV, should just revert the HE/HEAT nerfs, and leave in the HE reload we have now. Sundies with blockade armor are allowed to roll around with dual grenade launchers taking less damage from infantry weapons and C4 killing tanks and infantry alike, but tanks are the ones that get nerfed. Seriously try killing a battle sundy with anything less than AP/AV on an MBT and see what happens, while they come at you with dual AI weapons and vaporize you, lol.

Why don't you just pick up a copy of CoD if you want infantry only combat instead of playing a combined arms game?

Yeah. I guess not everyone knows how to play a war game.

The moment you realise that this is a combined arms game.

It's not. Your turn.

True. Start being relevant soon, though.

Who said I want infantry only combat?