Liberator is gamebreakingly op

I dunno if libs are OP per se, but they certainly aren't any fun to play against.

If/when a competent liberator shows up, ground forces either have to pull overwhelming AA or get farmed. So people are stuck doing mostly-dull AA duty to keep the lib crew away.

Or, spawn ESF or your own liberator? Why not do that? Why spawn AA when you think that AA work is boring anyway? Doesn't make sense to me.

Lib could be fixed by simply removing afterburners

Ok, too harsh. Maybe just reducing speed a bit, after all it is more armored than an MBT.

Sniping infantry with a dalton from altitude? Are you smoking something?
If you got tagged by a high altitude Lib Dalton round as an infantry now these days you were doing one of these few things due to it haveing almost NO splash damage, about a second to a second and a half travel distance and a fairly drastic bullet drop.

1: You were AFK out in the open.
2: you were running in the same direction for over 3 seconds.
3: You just got hit by a gunner with the pychic ability of future sight.

Libs are big, and fat, and can only really be highly mobile in bursts if they are running afterburners. If you play smart as a single AA unit you can keep them out of play or even Kill them to render them mostly useless in any combat situation. Do the Math a single AA unit against a vehicle that takes at least 2 people to reach potential.

"having problems with liberators? That's easy just pull a liberator!"

but seriously

I don't really like flying my reaver that much, and my TR/VS guys don't have any aircraft certed up. If you want to play ground and not get endlessly farmed by liberators you pretty much have to be prepared to be the guy who pulls AA and does the watch the sky thing

The salt levels in here..

They need a proper AA reward overhaul.

Air Deterrence was a good step, but the point ticks on it are too low.

Also, just the presence of AA is a deterrence, and as such, being in an AA vehicle/MAX in a "combat zone" should reward "Air Defense" xp ticks akin to "Objective Defense" they recently added.

I'd like to see how that affected Air/Ground balance before they start tweaking actual damage/weapon numbers.

Tank Buster (best anti-lib weapon) is a dirt cheap 250 certs (or was it only 100?)

and you don't need much else. Stealth can help if you want to really cert it up and add Afterburner.

Just use it to pop Libs and Gals hovering over bases.

Also, ESF's work fine. Most dummies who engage lib in ESF get to goddamn close where they can't dodge Dalton rounds which fly like it's moving through molasses now.

"Nerf Libs!!!" Yeah.... cause they haven't already been nerfed more than half a dozen times already.

It's the single most nerfed platform since launch. The only buff it ever got was to durability, and that because it was getting too easy for good tankers to find any incline and drop them with pathetic ease. The other buffs they gave it around that time were removed in a couple weeks.

nerfed over a whole dozen times, if we're keeping score. the main buff it got that we were allowed to keep was the tailgun firing angle. the other buffs were removed, and all the weapons had their ammo cut in half (or more!), as well as AI nerfed (belly and tail) across all weapons (splash removed or reduced, velocities cut) on the platform. it's so funny to me that people still complain about that lib update like we got "so OP," when really all they did was add some basic functionality (remember how terrible the tail was? all libs were 2/3 then) and then watched people flock to it because it was interesting and fun for more than say, 30-60 people in the whole game.

well, they fixed that with the typical response: more nerfs. and yet here we are.

well, the Lib update did add a SLEW of buffs, and there was a very brief return of the sky gods liberators before they removed nearly all the buffs besides the one that allowed the Libs to actually take a couple tank rounds (didn't cahnge any other resistances, it was a tank round resistance specific change) and the tail gun angle arc, which is more of a bug fix than anything IMO because it was inane before.

And yeah, Dalton has had ALL splash removed as well as velocity nerf after velocity nerf. It's barely competent at anti-tank now if they move at all because it often takes 2+ seconds from shot to hit target, so if they deviate from their heading at all, you miss. (I've fired some rounds and thought I missed, only to see the hitmarker a second AFTER I thought I missed for lack of indicator within expected time of travel)

Zephyr was nerfed in BOTH AV AND AI while also suffering heavy velocity nerfs

Duster has never been good

Shredder had it's explosive rounds removed so it's piss poor at AI again.

Tail Bulldog got the same velocity nerf

Only buff on weapons to stick is the Walkers velocity, and that only because it's strictly A2A weaponry.


If Libs were OP, you'd see a LOT mroe of them. The only reason they SEEM OP is the incredibly few remaining have learned to survive after all the nerfs and can still make use of their high damage, but now much harder to use, weaponry.

they also buffed racer, but no one uses it. and they sortof buffed afterburner initial fuel cost, but they also capped the top speed and removed the synergy with racer frame that it once had. so that wasn't that much of a buff, after all.

it's also important to note that the AP resistance buff and subsequent nerf also nerfed the Dalton in lib vs lib fights. it may not seem like much to the average/casual lib or your basic ground peasant, but it is a major change in terms of overall balance since the primary target of a lib approaching any battle is going to be other libs. in combination with the composite changes it now takes 3 dalton hits to burn a comp lib, really pushing the balance of power towards the shredder/drake/comp loadout. then around that time they also nerfed NAR in both activation time and healing per tick, further reinforcing the changes to lib v lib meta. again it won't matter that much to the average victim on the ground, but it does affect the ability of the top lib teams to reign in the population of scrubbish, infantry farming libs as well as they once had.

hell, we're over 12 direct nerfs already, just around that one update. and that's not even discussing indirect changes like the HP increase for phalanx turrets, damage and COF adjustments for basilisks, G2A walker getting the same buffs as A2A, etc etc.

and yeah, you're right. we've discussed it to death but if the Lib were a low cert investment and easy to use, it would be OP and everyone would use it. like what happened with Harasser or ZOE MAX. but the vast majority of players are unable to replicate the results of the few well certed, practiced teams, or the even fewer really skilled soloists or skilled pilots running successful pickups. and honestly, between you and me and everyone on the forums, i suspect that it's some measure of frustration over this inability that leads to the disproportionate outrage we see here.

I have a pretty well certed Lib (not maxed, though my TR lib is nearly maxed), and I barely make use of it but to pop a camping lib farmer or a spawn gal at flight ceiling.

Occasionally my new friend to the game guns, but he doesn't have the skill to make us overly effective. I get as many kills as he does, or more, using my TB on occasion (enemy libs, occasional ESF, sometimes killing blow on gal)

But yeah, I've had some decent runs, but often it's hard to do much of anything, and we spend minutes trying to find a spot to even be able to operate before some ESF gank squad swoops in and guarantees a death.

3 TomCat ESF's are incredibly dangerous in the air. Want to talk about low cost effectiveness, get tomcats with friends. You don't even need to be great, just don't get in over your head (eg; attack 3 or more higher skilled ESF's)

I have been able to shoot down libs with Prowlers.

The problem is unless you have at least 2 skyguard or 3 burster max there is no way to take it down. It's too tanky for a flying unit that has so much firepower: rocket launchers do not even scratch it (Two striker do not even work as deterrent).

Yes, if you throw enough ammo at a target eventually you'll hit it and even shoot it down. You're missing the point.

That's because your aim is awful then. As a libber myself, I can tell you right now, 2 strikers hurt like ****. Go try it in VR, just shoot a lib and see how much 1 clip does, now imagine double that in a few seconds.

Good for you, I guess merely your presence in the game will balance out Libs everywhere in every battle!

How are libs unbalanced?

A lib is basically a flying coffin within which any good pilot will kill you or at the very least make you focus on them and not focus on the ground which is their intended role btw, killing things on the ground, especially those 50 tanks at every major fight that cant be killed in any other way.

In fact, thanks to the lib being underpowered, every battle ends with a huge armor column shelling spawn rooms endlessly.

We should buff the lib back to what it was before all of the nerfs and clear out some of these tank zerg spawnroom campers.

Libs dont operate in major battles, so i have no idea what you are talking about. Another clueless post.

Guess what? Good players don't die to libs over and over. They either find another battle, or they jump in an ESF and go kill the lib.

So if good players dont die to libs repeatedly, i guess if you die to libs repeatedly that means....

The point is libs are meant designed and intended to kill tanks.

As someone who drives tanks myself, i know that the only thing other than another tank that is capable of killing me is an aircraft.

Infantry only kill bad tankers.

Only bad tankers die to C4.

Only lone wolf tankers die to libs.

I have shot down more planes with my magrider, which is by far the worst tank for AA, than i have been killed in said tank by planes.

If you have a hard time shooting down a lib with a lockdown prowler, then maybe you need to practice your aim, because its extremely easy to do.

Yeah lock downs easy when you're properly lined up for it.

However, stating that infantry only kills bad tankers is a very broad statement and makes me wonder how much you actually tank.

C4 is definitely not one of the big things (and infantry for that matter) that get my tank. However both have killed me when I get greedy.

And the point about libs I understand because theres essentially no other way to stop me sometimes.