Thoughts on New Betelgeuse 54-A!

Channel link: https://www.youtube.com/daminecrafters3

Hey guys Darth here and I just wanted to say my quick thoughts on the new Betelgeuse 54-A! New better ways to get kills video coming later this week!

Dat Killstreak though!

Thank's man!

I still personally find that the Orion and the Betel to be a bit unbalanced. They are all around weapons but masters at all.... The problem is... I have no clue how to balance it without them being useless.

All around? They are terrible at mid and long range. I only go back to the orion when I am in a really tight base, for everything else im doing better with my NS15.

Betelgoose and Orion are seriously OP.

OP compared to what? Ok they are the strongest close quarter LMGs but they arent as versatile as pretty much all the other LMGs. If you compare with rifles or shotguns, orion is suddenly underpowered. Dont bring the 0 cert argument it takes one day to farm 1000 cert with no membership.

I agree they are unbalanced and I also agree it would be extremely difficult to balance them out without making them useless.

I agree that the Betelgeuse falls off at longer ranges. I find them to still be not too bad as long as you burst fire with them.

No.

Yes.


The Only way to balance the Orion, Betelgeuse and SVA-88 is to remove the 0,75 ADS Movement Speed Modifier. This is essentialy what makes the weapons OP. Only the NS-15 M should have it, because it gives up DPS for it.

A VS Heavy Assault using one of the aforementioned weapons is 1) Tanky 2) Highly mobile and 3) has DPS Advantage. This is too much.

In return all the other Vanu LMGs need a rework and some serious buffs.

I wonder if VS main-players would agree to that trade?

I didn't know VS HA were more tanky than TR/NC, damn.
I didn't know either that Orion/Betel has more dps than MSW-R/CARV/Anchor, stupid me.
And wow such mobility I din't know that 0.75ads was faster than msw-r/Anchor hipfiring !

Oh, and do you think the Orion gets the 0.75ads for free ? No, it gives up adv.laser sight and Soft Point Ammo for it, and also gets more recoil.
Anchor/MSW-R can hipfire safely at 100% speed (100% > 75% ) between 1 and 10 meters and they have a TTK advantage between 10 an 15 meters. Beyond a certain range, they have better accuracy than the Orion because of their lower recoil. But in between there is some sort of "dead zone" where the 0.75 ADS kicks in and allow the Orion to shine.

Just because you don't get the same weapon does not mean it's imbalanced. Sorry rock, but paper is not OP. There is some slight asymmetrical balance in this game and people ***** about it all the time, no wonder we end up all with copy/paste weapons.

You do know the Orion has better hipfire to begin with, right? Orion with laser sight has virtually the same hipfire CoF as the Anchor/MSW-R with ALS.

Care to enlighten me where I said that? Please give me a quote. It should not take more than half a brain to figure that I was talking about HA generally being a tanky class.

Again, you seem to have a problem with reading don't you? The Orion is a high DPS LMG and has an advantage over many weapons. I never said that it is the highest DPS weapon.

You compare ADS Movement speed to Hipfire Movement speed? Seriously? I guess you know that hipfiring and ADSing make a night and day difference in headshot accuracy which is essential in Heavy Head-on engagements? Not even talking about engagement range.

The Orion has wonderful hipfire even without laser or adv. laser. It doen't need it. It perfectly accurate with grip up to medium range too. It gives up nothing for having the 0,75 as it is intended for close to medium range engagements.

The Anchor and the MSW-R can only hipfire up to 10 meters if the have adv. laser equipped, which makes them really inaccurate even at midrange. The orion user can ADS within these 10 meters and still strafe like hell while scoring headshots and doubling the damage output. You cannot do this with hipfire.

I like asymmetrical balance but this can be no argument for defending overperforming weapons. Players defending their Toys here in the forums has a long history. Remember the Striker, ZOE, Pre-Nerf Harasser, pre Nerf-PPA, ancient Scat-Max etc.

I have no problems admitting that a weapon I use is too strong. I was all for a Raven-Nerf. Sadly most players are more like you biting at everyone who brings up a balance discussion.


Edit: Sorry @OP that this thread developed into the typical VS-Balance Discussions.

As a VS main player, I wouldn't care one bit if the 0.75 ADS was removed completely. When the overshield is on any benefit gained from it is lost. If the 0.75 ADS was removed, and more bullets were added as a result, that would be more OP in my opinion than the ADS benefit ever offered.

I honestly don't think either the Orion or the Betelgeuse would suffer as a result.

http://ps2oraclestats.com/monthlystats/
Looks like according to those stats, Orion does not perform any better than the Anchor among Q4 and br100, Anchor even perform slightly better. But Orion is OP so how is that possible ?
If you have stats showing how the Orion is outperforming a weapon with a similar role, i.e close range, then show me, until then it's only OP in the head of some NC/TR forum warriors

You complain about the Orion user being too tanky and other stuff. If your problem lies with the HA, make a rant about the HA, don't try to relate it to the Orion.

Yes totally what I do, always asking for buff and stuff. Only you can be unbiased.

Actually I would say that the Anchor is a bit too strong as well. When I play NC I generally see no reason to use another LMG other than to auraxium them.

Its just that this is not the thread to discuss about whether Ha is Op or not. I thought I made my point clear. A heavy assault that is tanky and has high DPS is at least acceptable because the Overshield that makes him tanky is limiting his mobility. That doesn't apply to the Orion users, because they, in comparison to other Heavy assaults, are tanky, mobile and have high DPS.

I think of me that I am, as I play all three empires. When i feel Ravens are OP I will say so (and I did). When the Orion/Betelgeuse feels OP I will say so. And if the Trap or Hailstorm would strike me as OP I would bring this discussion up as well.

Okay, interesting. In my opinion the 0,75 ADS is what makes the weapon so strong but not every VS seems to think that way.
I guess removing the 0,75 and buffing the VS Arsenal across the board in other Areas (i.e. short reloads as faction trait) would solve many problems the VS has with the other factions once it comes to balance discussions.

Getting to be a broken record but saying it again anyway.

The BJ heat system is too damn strong. That entire video he had zero downtime with the BJ. Not once did it have to reload. Hell, the weapon gets better when you swap to rockets or your pistol as it cools down while you are doing other things.

How many times would you had reloaded any other LMG in that video? So what if you can't change cores anymore, you never have to overheat the damn thing to start with! Not till you choose to overheat it, unlike any other weapon in the game where there is not choice in reloading but if you are going to have a short reload or long. You WILL reload with any other weapon, that is a certainty. The BJ, you can never even see an overheat till you hold M1 like an idiot.

High mag LMGs trade equip times and more for the extra ammo. The BJ trades nothing for its heat system and it is making the BJ a monster. Just look for any type of gameplay stats you wish and try to find one that says the BJ is lacking compared to another weapon. I can't seems to find anything.

What does the BG trade for heat? A few of things actually and they are both rather important things.

1st) Accuracy. The BG isn't an accurate weapon by any means. It is a stock Orion without Grip. You will lose to anyone who can actually aim.

2nd) You lack the ability to kill a lot of people rapidly back to back. While do able it isn't that easy. You run the very real risk of overheating.

3rd) LONG reload. If at any point you overheat the BG you end up with a reload that takes about 6.5 - 7 seconds to finish. This puts it at or close to the longest reload in the game

There is no gun in the game which punishes poor aim and/or decision making like the BG (aside from maybe the other heat mechanic weapons).

And anyone calling it OP needs to play VS a bit versus a good player using the MSW or Anchor. The BG gives you longevity in a fight against worse players but as soon as the good players turn up with optimal setups, you're in trouble.