Why are NC and TR doing worse than vanu on alerts?

the complaint about reload speed isn't even something TR should be bringing up when the orion has 50 rounds in the mag to the carvs 100. thats 8 seconds for the carv to empty, its 4 for the orion to empty, let assume we stopped at 49 for fun

so thats 8 seconds for 100 rounds carv

thats 3.92+4+3.2=11.12 seconds to fire off 99 rounds. sounds balanced to me in that respect.

lets go further, lets fire 200 vs 197 (abuse that short reload)

so carv fires 200 rounds in 8+6.2+8 = 22 seconds
the orion fires 197 in 3.92*3+3.2*3+4= 25.36 seconds

still sounds rather balanced, considering by the time the orion mag runs dry the carv is still ready to kill just as many people as the orion before its apparent "crippling" reload.

can the TR stop complaining about their reload while ignoring their mag size please?

also that math and diagram is laughable. movement of your target is not comparable to weapon recoil compensation, they dont have the same relationship.

Does t victory seem hollow when you have to nerf a weapon to win?

Never said the reload was crippling, but in a realistic situation you want to keep your magazine topped off as frequently as possible, and getting stuck in a reload means getting killed. So you have a few seconds less vulnerability on the Orion, which makes its reload characteristics better.

Both have pros and cons pertaining to ammo and reload, so don't act like the orion's 50 less rounds put it at some horrendous disadvantage when it is advantageous to be reloading nearly twice as fast.

That said, I see you ignored accuracy entirely. And while you can act like .75 ADS doesn't do anything and "That math is laughable!" you can continue wallowing in ignorance or you can accept that .75 ADS has a tangible and significant advantage.

This person provided proof that .75 ADS has an advantage, I don't see you disproving it.

I'm not saying the orion is OP, but it's a very good gun. Most vanu seem to be of the opinion of "The orion is good, everything else is bad" which makes about as much sense as "The rest of the world is crazy, not me."
It's a very good gun, on one of the most important and most used classes in the game, given freely as the starting weapon.

Imagine if the starting carbine for the NC was the GD-7, or starting LMG was the anchor.

Every faction has a skillcap. I never said the NC's were harder than everyone's.

How in the hell would "easy" to use 200 damage weapons be balanced? Or AR's that do as much damage as other factions LMG's!!??

Have you ever battled someone who was really good with an Anchor. Holky Jeebus!

Weapon balance? Come on, we all know faction population is the single biggest decider of Alerts.

It could be cos VS is OP as holy hell when you combine their gear.. perhaps each thing isn't OP by itself but when you combine it together the VS loadout has the greatest synergy to the point that TR and NC can't compete.

Its not like this is something new, I've been playing about 2-3 years now and VS have always won almost every alert.

From personal experience I first was TR, then did vanu due to the lasher and lancer of the heavy assults, and kept doing it for the max weapons of the PPC (not the real name but you know the two shot plasma) and vortex. They all look cool and they got no bullet drop, so suddently I was a king sniper with AV weapons and long distance kills are easy against armor or infantry.


Then...... got more interested in tank game, and the vanu tank is kind of weird, the TR tank works more nomaly as a turret.

I also do a lot of sunderer stuff, which is identical with either faction, pack it somewhere, farm certs, and use the same identical guns.

also I pick factions based on aperence, I like TR's look better, but vanu are ok in a different way. No way I will play NC no mater how appealing a weapon they could have, yellow and blue, blockly max suits that look like Michal bay transformers never!

Even if chainguns are identical to other weapons, or less powerfull I would use them because they look better.

100 rounds is far better than 1/2 reload time, being able to reload when its safe is far better than having a fast reload,
lets argue the obsurd, I offered you 1000 round mag and a 30s reload would you take it?

Id trade my orion for a t9 carv. please can I haz it?
Try comparing them side to side in vr training to auto snipe at 50 - 70m,
the carv is far better, the orion is a 10-40m powerhouse, but it is just about on par with the carve in that area
but the carv is well rounded, the larger clip allows for longer engagements and more targets downed, with out sacrificing rpm or dmg, the orion was one of the main reasons I joined the vanu, but sadly, it became one of the big reasons I want to leave,

One weapon does not display balance ether, if that were true, faction specific items would not exist, and the even if one lmg was to show imbalance, the godsaw is in a class of its own.

Vanu is the one faction I have never played nor will i ever (cant forgive zoe) that being said i think the vs attracted a lot of people who are generally better. The reason being their faction traits sound the best on paper and i think its sort of viewed as the hardcore players faction. Generally they do more with less have more br 100 players than NC i play TR so not sure how many 100s weve got. And generaly seem better organized by people who make smart drcisions during alerts. iany emerald vanu can weigh in but much like the horde and alliance in WOW early on the horde was the team you joined if u wanted to win. I think Vanu is that team on ps2.

Yeah that's all very true.

The Betelgeuse is a plain mystery though, because if you compare it to the other directive LMG with only the top 25% in KPUQ4 it is still way ahead.
And if you compared it to otherwise high performing LMGs again with KPUQ4 it is still way ahead.

It's just there's the Betelgeuse and every other LMG is way below (even when just looking at experienced players), it's pretty baffling,
I can only think that somehow there is amazing synergy between the weapon and its ammo mechanic (or alternative it is bugged and it's stats are actually much better than is offically shown - which actually now I think about it might be the most reasonable explanation ).

NC get for free a bolt action rifle that costs 100 certs for the VS and TR to get. In return, it seems the developers decided that NC need to spend 100 certs and get a new player friendly LMG for 100 certs in the form of GD-22S. The GD-22S btw performs far far better than both the Orion and Carv in those low BR levels.

80 - Orion VS54 | Q1 KPU | Daily Average: 9.56
7233 - GD-22S | Q1 KPU | Daily Average: 12.83
79 - T9 CARV | Q1 KPU | Daily Average: 8.59

For the record, I don't find the GD-22S an op weapon, but it is indeed a very good gun. Of note is the fact that the GD-22S does not need the 0.75 ADS modifier to outperform the Orion by 25%. The majority of players can't take advantage of the ADS modifiers consistently, the new players certainly can't.

I think I came across a perfect example of the TR and NC response to alerts on Hossin earlier today. VS had 61% map control, due to NC and TR duking it out over three facilities the whole time.

NC player: VS is winning and TR is...fighting the NC?
TR player: yawn

If the orion was sudden godmode ultra op, like anything else in the vs arsenal. ANY br 1 who JUST downloaded ps2 today with no prior knowledge would be able to grab an orion, scythe, semi auto sniper,magrider, or any no bullet drop weapons and be as good if not better as the best tr and nc characters because they have horrendously overpowered gear, according to you. When was the last time you saw a brand new player with a 5-20 KDR? Never you say? Hm. Maybe were not as ******* op as you think and maybe, crazy thought, we just learn how to use our gear to its best over time. Msybe its also because the orion is our best cqc LMG, meaning even BR 100 900 hr players in the vs use it for its intended roll, unlike tr and nc who have other cqc LMGs also. Seriously this is how i view most tr and nc complaining about the VS now.

I found out the reason

You haven't drank the kool aid yet.

Imotep imotep

If I want to win an alert I alone can easily make a difference of 5% and upward, depending on time of day of course, simply by being smart about attack vectors when you look at the map. Any fights above 24 players of each faction don't interest me much so I go lure out the motivated nonfarming few and cap a base in Nirvana.

Park a sundy at a base people won't give a damn about, cause you can't even cap it yet and then once you got the base on the border, quickly redeploy and just hope I can get some backup and demotivate the bit of opposition that shows up before they grow numbers.

I've met a lot on Vanu side doing this, especially at night or morning, whereas the few who try the same against us seem rather easily countered. But that's just Cobalt. A lot of the people backing me up are very bad players, but it doesn't matter so much in fact. All it takes is to have at least even numbers, and VS be redeploying a lot. And not rarely is someone already waiting in the next base to save the one we just took by insta-capping.

TR in particular seems to me to be little more than a zerg faction; NC is a lot more of a threat because I notice what I described rather often. But VS definitly do it most, so yay us.

I veery much doubt it has anything to do with gear, especially if I see something as ridiculous as 950 rpm. We only got a bunch of weapon essentially doing the same thing as 3 others. And no, reload times and mag sizes make no flipping difference at all... Unless you mistake yourself for a MAX or something. Quit the desperate number crunching to excuse yourself having a bad day.

Then again... who cares about alerts anyway? I do what I do because I like small encounters, that's all.
Oh, one more thing... buying a nonstock weapon is literally just 2 days of playing. For all I care I'd farm that with a pistol...silly argument really. Inbetween not having maxed out shields and utilities this loses even more significance as it just drowns in a sea of thousands of certs You'll have to get either way.

I think its bugged. I can not explain otherwise, how I get killed by Betelgeuses at 75m+ in splitseconds, when on my side burst firing long range weapons like the Reaper or the Gauss Saw is more effective at the same ranges.

I tend to assume that players using the Beetlejuice are among some of the best in the game. It's the only weapon that I see reliably get 3+ consecutive headshots at any range against me. I do notice when something moderately suspicious happens...and this sort of occurrence NEVER happens with NC and is extremely rare with TR.

Anyone saying the Orion is the reason VS vins alerts is either daft, or lying to have another weapon buffed. Even if the Orion was slightly better than other heavy weapons it would not lead to VS winning alerts. Pop, teamwork, fourth faction and mindsets win alerts - one LMG does not.

Edit: I have noticed getting instant-headshotted at long range with the beetlejuice - and yes I do find that odd. Does not apply for any of the other directive lmg's nor the Orion that should be a lil better.

Just imagine to have to drive a sunderer to a wall defended by a line of lancers and vortexes.

Now imagine to have to do the same but this time the wall is defended by TR.

Yeah that's why vanu wins more.

The thing is, that it should be a short range weapon, with a huge CoF and hardly controlable recoil. That thing is just weird. And it doesn't get only used by the best players. Sometimes I have the feeling that half of the VS are running around with that **** thing.

I think the largest contributor is vanu air. Scythes are very easy to fly, no drop on nosegun? 100 certs for your 20 round, no drop, slightly higher damage aircraft-mounted viper autocannon.

Due to their ease of use, you end up with more people pulling them than you have TR pulling mossies, and certainly more than NC pulling reavers. Said newbies can easily provide a flying meatshield/distration for the pros/squads who roll in groups of 3-7 aircraft.
Time and again when there's an Alert, there's organized Vanu air-cover.

At least on connery.