Why are NC and TR doing worse than vanu on alerts?

This is my hypothesis, so it might be wrong.....
The reason I chose VS is becoz I think I am pretty *high tech* (a CS PHD), so the PEWPEWPEWPEW sound remind me that VS is a really cool division and their ads says "only enlightened chose VS" so, go figure.

I supposed equally minded people would also choose VS, and VS division might have a very slight advantage in terms of player's educational level, becoz VS seems to be very well organised whenever platoon leaders give out plans and objectives.

this is just a hypothesis, no scientific proof or whatsoever research I had done myself.

That a significant part of VS infantry guns isn't properly done is very easily demonstrated with their stats. I myself wonder how the "Orion is OP" crowd can keep at it against evidence that the SVA and Anchor seem to be doing way better, while weapons stats show that the Orion is mostly a CARV minus 50 rounds plus .75ads plus better hipfire.

If the Orion is truly such a OP LMG, why is that? For instance why in Q4 KPU on very similar guns, isn't the Jaguar leaving the Trac-5 in the dust despite .75ads? Why would .75ads be more powerful on a heavy than it seems to be on other guns on other classes when in theory it should be the opposite (because overshield)?

When you keep hammering something over and over, people will start believing it, sure...but that doesn't make it true.

I'm unconvinced it is direct weapon balance performance that is causing the alert difference, as generally in that context things are pretty balanced (although if you compare the Orion and Carv as starter weapons to the NC6 SAW there is a huge difference).


On the other hand though you've got to be a bit careful what you compare.

For example arguably the Anchor has more in common (that is it is a very good mid-range [whilst being good at close and longish range too] weapon rather than a good/very good close/mid range weapon) with the SVA-88 than the Orion (technically its competitor) and arguably the stats would agree.

Also why the Betelgeuse is so insanely good no one can really fully explain.

I think with the Jag and Trac-5 though it is more that the Trac-5 is cronically underestimated as a weapon, it has always signficantly outperformed the Merc for example.

To answer OP's question, it's because the VS are underpowered.
Right?

And to the points being made by people about the beetlegooz being good, no, it may be the only directive weapon you actually see people using, but no. It's bad guys.

I honestly think that the vanu win alerts because as far as I can see, nobody enjoys fighting them, they have too much BS, sidestrafing tanks which can survive 2 C4 if they strafe away from the side it's stuck on, No bullet drop It's not an advantage for battle rifles, scouts, Saron or the lancer, shush. they disappear at night, their maxes are the best all rounders, their immense heavy assault spam at all times (Seriously, it was impossible to complete the LA directive fighting against them, they barely deploy any LAs.) and the constant strobing of their guns.

Believe it or not, VS LAs complain about lack of LAs of other factions as well. LA is not an easy class to play and neither is the non sniper infiltrator, which is why you see less of them.

As for the starter weapons, remember how the VS and TR need to spend 100 certs to get a proper bolt action sniper rifle? It seems that the developers did the same thing with the NC, only NC need to spend 100 certs to get an LMG (the GD-22S to be exact). If you take that in mind, then there is indeed a huge difference, but this time in favor of the NC (taking into account only low BR stats).

As for the Betelgeuse, if I may share some of my own experience. It seems that, compared to me using my preferred SVA-88, I tend to fire at enemies with the Betelgeuse even if the chances of a kill are low, perhaps because the ammo expenditure is zero and perhaps because by the time they come to proper range or proper position, the heat dissipation will reset.

The other reason, is that the Betelgeuse doesn't have more than two kills per overheat. That makes people naturally more defensive in their playstyle, in terms of taking chances. What people call pacing is exactly the ability to allow yourself to disengage sooner than you'd do with a weapon that could fire for longer. You're basically playing as you'd play your Medic, taking the chances you would afford with the Medic, but with the added bonus of having the overshield in an emergency.

In any case, the announced buffs to the other directive LMGs will reshape the balance again, hopefully for the better.

I'm not debating your points (i very much agree with your opening statement), just trying to expose that the argument of an abnormal discrepancy between VS weapons can be validly sustained, while it's nigh impossible to determine Orion's alleged OP status from what stats we have (and really all we have that's tangible is Q4 KPU, no Q4 KPH or anything else truly usable and that's not good enough), or even to deduce it from other things.

It's indeed odd that alerts are won by VS so much, but i can't find a reason. If there's any OP gun, it's only relative (in regard to whatever else is available), not absolute (there isn't any "noob tube") on either side.

The only infantry weapons that i could see making a significant difference if at all would be heavy guns, due to their major differences in role, as the theoretically inferior Lasher proved to be a great suppressive gun in lag situations, like the recent world record.

What i'm unsure about is vehicles, as i don't know that facet of the game well enough. I can only speculate that some stuff might be OP for controlling choke points in large battles (which i avoid).
The only variable left outside of arsenal would be the playerbase (more or less people, more or less organization on one side than on others). A server's history could skew the stats, but then why would it be that marked servers-wide?

I'd put my money on the playerbase. For a while now, while VS are the least played empire, they seem to dominate the population during the early hours in the morning and some of the working hours of the day. If you get overpop during 2/3 of the day, but not when it really matters, you can skew alert statistics by winning in off peak hours.

That's just a hunch though, until somebody correlates the alert win ration with the part of the day the majority of the population occupies the servers.

Their TR outfit is FRZA. Their NC outfit is...um...I don't actually know because they play NC so rarely. LWTX?

For the most part TR and NC prefer fighting each other .. So VS just Ghost zerg the bases until the other two eventually show a little interest .. By then it's to late ..

Ofc it helps when alerts are 24/7 and like now VS have 47% World pop on Connery ..

That's your perception on your playtime on your server. That's 3 big restrictions to drawing a general rule.

I wonder what the alert breakdown is by server...

I also wonder about the stats of weapons, like ate they a full set of data or can you slice it based on attachment?

I think the kill ratios are skewed by new players learning the weapons

I wonder what the stays are for all br30 and higher

This is a pretty accurate description of a typical battle against VS on Emerald. Especially the part where VS always uses more vehicles and how they are harder to see in darker situations. Mostly though it's that NC hardly ever pulls a decent amount of vehicles which annoys me. Or they will take 1-2 sunderers to attack a large base like a tech plant and hardly ever defend them with tanks or even a dedicated infantry team so the attack is over almost as soon as it starts.

Thats the best anyone has put it.

It seems VS pulls the most MAXes of all factions (at least on Cobalt). Every Infantry fight has them, espacially small Infantry fights were MAXes are overpowered as hell and a reason to quit the game.
TR doesn't seem to use as many MAXes. NC too for obvious reasons. It feels like more players care more about a good fight that about personal K/D on these factions.

Magriders are incredly hard to solo as Infantry as they are much much harder to hit with infantry-based Anti-Tank weapons like Rocket Launchers and C4, which is frustrating. The most reliable counter I have against them are Hornets, but of course this only works when my faction has complete Air-Superiority and these times are rare. Ravens work sometimes, but Magriders can get to cover easily.

You only forgot to mention the PPA-Scythes that farm crowds of infantry from 1 mile away, completely out of range of Lock-Ons and Flak. And still most VS think that the "no bullet drop" feat isn't useful at all. It is just not useful on most infantry weapons. On Saron, Lancer, Vortex, other Saron and PPA? Totally is.

I don't really blame VS Player for this. History in Planetside showed that every faction abused overpowered/broken mechanics in this game. Remember the old Striker, old PPA, ZOE, Hacksaws etc. Its SOE that has to make sure that the game is balanced and nothing can be abused, like the light-PPA can be now.


Interesting for me is, that I actually like the VS to be this way. Lore-wise they are the mysterious 3rd faction that has superior technology and backstabs TR and NC with intelligent moves, so its fine for me that its harder to fight them.

It is the most versatile weapon, given for free, with extremely low recoil, no bullet drop, .75 ADS, good RoF and damage. On top of that it has a fast reload. A good few strengths but more importantly, no weaknesses. Where is the orion bad? In what situation?

And no, not "Well when a gauss saw is shooting you in the face" or in other words comparing other weapons. Where does the weapon itself reasonably fail to do something well?

Not necessarily harder to use, but rather less forgiving....
You yourself have admitted to this already...

"Once you break through the "skill cap" or in other words once you have a player with a significant amount of skill, then the harder to use more powerful weapons are more powerful then those weapons that do less damage, yet fire more round faster.

I am agreeing with you and that is the core of the issue in my opinion. It is this "Skill Cap" that makes the difference, because like I said the vast majority of players are below this skill cap. So, yes they are using weapons that hit harder, however they do not have the skill to utilize that higher damage potential, thus they are less effective...

SOE has even admitted to this in the past as well. They have been very careful with NC weapons and have often been adjusted based on the performance of those weapons in the hands of the most skilled players.

I stated that the numbers I provided where not accurate and they where merely meant as an example.

The fact that the VS are consistently winning 10-15% more alerts then the TR and the TR are consistently ahead of the NC by 3-6%, this shows a trend. And it also shows that something is out of balance. I know players like to think of themselves as superior as well as the faction they are playing for, but in the grand scheme of things players of varying skill levels are going to be distributed fairly equally across all factions and servers.

Either blinkered or troll. Regardless, that is a nonsensical statement. All factions are as bad as each other in redeploying.

Ammo?

How do you explain the VS consistently winning Alerts, while having the lowest worldwide populations and worse player retention?

There are many reasons why the NC may have a greater population and maybe that is part of the problem...I really do not know. I can only conjecture, but I think something is off...

well if you look at other threads i keep seeing that people say TR and NC fight each other more then VS because its more fun the facing VS...

One way to explain it is by checking the off peak alerts. It seems that, while VS suffer population wise during peak hours, they seem to be the majority during off peak. And since off peak hours are more than peak hours and alerts are won easier when fewer people are around ...