Whats is the Vanu special trait?

"Whats is the Vanu special trait?"

Being annoying to fight?

VS traits? No drawbacks for getting traits.

I'm sorry but I doubt the devs got together one day and decided no bullet drop was a "trait"....just lol. No, that's not a trait. That's just what Plasma/Laser weapons do. And the only weapons that have no drop now, are ones that don't need it. If you're using an LMG at ~100 meters....you are doing it wrong.

It's clear that Vanu have no singular empire "trait" as of yet, but the Devs are slowly developing them one with more and more weapons supposedly getting the unlimited ammo HEAT mechanic.

I play all three factions and the only one that really feels like it has a cohesive overall trait is the New Conglomerate.

Yes, because I love being "the shotgun faction"...especially when I don't use shotguns.

it's superfab

I don't really agree I actually think the vanu have the only real traits that are unique. .
Tr, vanu, and nc all have shotguns, but nc has more varieties of shotgun platforms.
Tr, nc, and vanu all have high alpha damage rifles, but nc has the highest. They pay for it in fire rate.
Tr have higher rof weapons in general but we pay for it in accuracy. To keep us sated some of our weapons have slightly more ammo, but not all.
Vanu has almost all the niche weapons, energy weapons, no bullet drop weapons, a hovertank, the lasher, the lancer. I see the only weapons that are niche and not vanu would probably be the striker rl and phoenix missile launcher or maybe ravens on nc.

Unless this thread is about what numerical values does vanu possess over the other factions and not their actual traits.

Wow nice job on going out of your way to list the same stuff multiple times.

Accuracy
Faster Reloads
Heat mechanism and unlimited ammo
Mobility
Bad applied no bullet drop (soe has to work in that)
The majority of top ProCob alt Playes

Orion.

You bet.

Did you know that Vanu also have niche weaponry. ;-)

Unless your weapon empties its magazine in an average TTK the DPM isn't much of a measure. Effective DPS is the closest you'll get to relevant with TTK's that are as low as PS2's. In the end DPS is majorly affected by how many rounds you get on target, and much less affected by how much damage your weapon actually does in set up the game currently uses, as the damage differences aren't so great they can't be overcome many times over by a single additional hit. In the end, DPS factionally is pretty pointless anyhow because its inconsistent over many guns. The NC GD7F has a very high RoF and good base damage plus good accuracy. Thus its average TTK and effectiveness in combat is quite high. The NC gauss saw has lower RoF, significantly higher damage, but seriously problematic accuracy due to recoil, and thus its TTK is higher. Thus in most circumstances GD7F>NC Gauss SAW. Both have the "NC high damage trait" so to speak, but the GD7F applies it effectively while the gauss saw is much less effective at most engagement ranges.

No drop is not meaningless, even with reduced velocity. Every other faction is compensating for both drop and leading, you are compensating for one with no drop. Even if you were to have a lesser muzzle velocity, you're still suffering vastly less margin for error than someone with a somewhat higher velocity who can fall short. A TR carbine can fall short, overshoot, fail to lead enough, and lead too much. A VS carbine can only fail to lead enough or lead too much. You have half the variables to take into account.

With how easily low min damage values and fall off can be compensated for by a single extra hit, having half the variables to take into account for a long ranged shot is a very significant advantage when extending the range versatility of your weapons.

Yeah but prowlers also don't have missiles pass under their tank and have more issues with terrain. The prower and magrider aren't that different in survivability unless you add in the magburner, at which point the magrider because unusually survivable for an MBT when in a bad spot. Doesn't end up meaning that much anyhow however, because in both cases they're let down by other elements. IE the mag's main gun.

In the end I find the vanguard to be the best overall tank for taking on any duty, the prowler to generally be the best infantry farm machine, and the magrider to be a weird mix that relies much more heavily on team work than the other two.

I have some issues with this argument.
1: No bullet drop matters on any weapon capable of engaging beyond short ranges. IE every single weapon that doesn't have a projectile which disappears after a short range, (in this case most everything.) Just because its not made to engage at that range does not mean it can't not or that it should not. You can engage at any range you can score hits from.

2: Muzzle velocity differences of 30m/s are pretty much irrelevant at short ranges. An NC Warden (battle rifle) with a muzzle velocity of 600m/s will strike a target at 100m in .16s. Your eidelon at 570m/s is .17s.

3: No drop is one less factor to keep in mind and is basically halving the number of predictions on the target you must make. That is a huge potential boost to accuracy.

Its funny. You have an NC badge, yet you tell a vanu that their weapon is ok.

Tr guns need more oomph
Vanu guns need less fsm.
NC guns need less recoil

You are aware I can change my badge to any faction, right? I play NC, TR, and VS.

And yes, their weapons are "Ok" in that they have some awesome ones, some good ones, some godawful ones, and some whose design decisions I can only scratch my head and wonder "Why" at. Same with every other faction.

Considering the average accuracy of the PS2 player is 20%, being the only faction with access to numerous primary weps that regularly fail to drop even a single target per mag is in fact significant, no matter how hard you try to ignore it.
It is also one of the reasons that makes a big portion of the VS arsenal lackluster,and thus virtually unused by the average player.

No drop is not meaningless indeed.However on all weapons where it has ANY meaning the VS get either identical or higher drop then the other factions.

Let me elaborate on that statement since you have clearly missed it in my previous comment, and in your defense it was not supported by the almighty math a 2 min google search and windows calculator can provide.
As you can see here, the recoil compensation for a wep with 450 m/s muzzle velocity in PS2 at the range of 50 meters is 0.069 degrees.To put that into perspective, aside from 50 meters being far beyond the average engagement range for infantry, the compensation that the other factions need to do on a 1080p monitor at that range clocks in at an impossible to compensate for sub 1 pixel drop even at the default 55 vertical fov.

On the other hand drops in muzzle velocity increase the inaccuracy of the weapon exponentially when shooting at a dodging target, since by the time your shot actually reaches its destination, there is no longer anything to hit,and leading becomes vastly less effective vs a target that is constantly changing direction the slower the velocity of your projectile and the longer the range is.

An extreme example of that would be the light PPA used vs other ESFs - it is fairly accurate, has decent damage and doesn`t suffer at all from recoil or bullet drop, and since all other noseguns have to compensate both for drop and leading,then the light PPA is the best AA nosegun in the game, since it only has half the variables to take into account?

Where no bullet drop would matter is on a OHK weapon when firing upon an unalert target 250 or more meters away with a weapon with muzzle velocity of 450 m/s or higher, the calculations for which Thausmasurge has helpfully provided to the public (big props).

Shorter 2nd version of the reply since the first one was lost when posting initially:

That is true,but the magi gets hit by rockets that would pass far above or to the sides of a prowler.Hovering also artificially raises the magrider making it even harder to hull down then it would normally be on a tank with no turret and a low mounted cannon.

The magburner, when used in battle, usually serves the purpose of closing the distance, since at range it is far less likely to prevail in the engagement, and at close range the superior mobility allows it to exploit the weaker side or even rear armor of the opponent,while preventing them from hitting its weakspots.

When caught in a "bad spot" you actually need to be in an advantageous position for the magi in order to stand any chance of survival,since you have to expose your weak rear while using the short leap of the magburner to get behind cover.However the slow speed of the magi, coupled with the slow recharge rate of magburner will allow the opponents tank to catch up to you quickly, unless the encounter happens on hilly terrain or you happen to leap over obstacles that are unpassable with their vehicle.

Shorter 2nd version of the reply since the first one was lost when posting initially:
Sure you can engage an enemy at 300 meters with the beamer, lowering the shields of your target slightly for a short time, alerting them to your presence, alerting any other enemies around your position of your exact location, making the target realize he is vulnerable and start dodging or running for cover, effectively ruining any potential shot a friendly sniper could be lining up.
You can achieve all of those things with a magshot too,bullet drop doesn`t make a difference.

That .01 second is vastly more important then the 2 pixels of drop.

See light PPA example.

EDIT: God daym it forum cut off half my msg
2nd edit in progress.

We also have drop on the all AV noseguns for the ESF, Our MBT's primary has the worst drop of all the factions, Our shotgun slugs have drop, Snipers have drop... Its not a trait when we don't get it where it counts. The OP could not tell because at the range it would be beneficial, Your horizontal recoil is so bad that it doesn't even matter. It is impossible to account for horizontal recoil.


Personally, I hope we start getting more heat mechanic weapons.

the tr are more accurate than the vs in full auto due to low verticle recoil and low horizontal shake. Try firing a t1 cycler and then a pulsar, then try an orion and a t9 carv for two examples

Didn`t quite manage to finish editing before the timer expired, but the few lost paragraphs were mostly praising magis mobility and its ability to reach spots no other vehicle can, and I originally wrote them to offset all the negatives I did write about it.
The point I was trying to make is it is not in any way UP, quite the opposite actually, IMO it has the highest potential of any ground vehicle, just not as a "tank" and it doesn`t scale well with numbers.

Aside from that lost a few paragraphs of math and google stuff + some weps comparisons which are not that important.

VS special trait is being specialists in damage avoidance. As in they're difficult to see due to camo, especially in dark areas, and they're capable of outmaneuvering their opponents (.75x ADS, Magrider). These characteristics become even more advantageous in small scale face to face fights, where they're capable of keeping their weak spots out of reach and expose only a very slim profile to their enemies while being able to keep their sights on target pretty much all the time (particularly pronounced on the Magrider and Scythe). They're vulnerable when attacked from a different angle though. However to avoid being surprised attacked their weapon systems are designed so that there's little to no stuff that could obstruct your vision. Infantry weapons typically only take up a small portion of the screen and CQC weapon sights are holograms so there's no frames and stuff that could block your view. Scythe cockpit design allows for a very clear view as well. Their small arms weapons have outstanding full auto controlability and with the quick battery reload system you have very little downtime in combat.

There are plenty of weapons in all factions that, if you took 20% of their magazine at max range, would fail to kill a target in one magazine. The aforementioned GF7F would fail to kill a target dealing maximum damage (143) with 20% hit accuracy. You have to add the elements of headshots into the mix, not to mention the average accuracy of all weapons for a character is not the same as their accuracy with any particular weapon. Any weapon that deals less than 162 damage will fail to kill a full health normal infantry target with a 30 round magazine with a 20% accuracy. This would indicate almost every single NC/VS non-lmg infantry weapon in the game should be requiring one reload to drop a single target outside of 10m.

Obviously this isn't the case.

For example: The meatgrinding GD7F carbine. 143@10m. 30 round magazine.
(30*143)*.2=858.

Another example, the Reaper DMR rifle. 200@10m 24 round magazine.
(24*200)*.2=960.

Both of these weapons still murder people with great efficacy.

The metrics your using are flawed average overall accuracy and ignoring headshot bonuses and don't represent the actual game.

One, the graph isn't representative of the actual situation in game. It posits a 2m effective target which will only happen when you and the target at one a perfectly level surface with no elevation for either side. Second, it posits that any hit, anywhere on the body is as beneficial as any other. Third is fails to take into account how cover affects any of these things. None of this represents gameplay. A target being fired at from above will be smaller than a target standing on a level surface on the same plane as you are. Due to the actual limitations of LOS due to terrain i'd go further to say most fights at ranges beyond 15m will occur with target and shooter on uneven elevation as its a requirement to make shots at all.
Second, not all body parts are the same obviously. Leg shots are worth less, heads are worth more. Heads are a significantly smaller target than 2m. This means the angle of fire you can take against the target are much reduced. Third, cover will reduce the overall size of a target which again, reduces where hits count.

In short, all the graph says is that 2 targets, on a perfectly level field, taking all hits on any part of the body, will render no bullet drop meaningless at 50m.

This is not comparable to game play with targets on uneven fields, with limited visibility of the target and certain body parts of a significantly higher priority than others. A head is more realistically a target with a size of about .26m. A person beyond half cover, more akin to a 1m target, a person crouched, 1m again, less than that if also behind cover, and all of these are even lessened by elevation.

In short, plenty of ways to make yourself vastly smaller than a 2m target without even trying just by the way the game is set up.

Two, your difference in arrival time is .01 seconds at 100 game meters. If your target were running perpendicularly to you at 100 m/s (IE over 200 hundred miles per hour) they would travel a distance of 1 meter. The only thing that comes close to this is a full racer+afterburning reaver. A human being moving at say, an inhuman sprint of 13m/s (about 30 miles per hour) would move .13 meters from its starting point. Literally you'd be landing a shot after the target moved 13 cm, less than 6 inches. There is no exponential loss off accuracy here. Its a relevant, but very small difference in accuracy.

Engagements occur at ranges well beyond 50m on a regular basis. First, understand that each meter within PS2 is internally consistent (all meters are the same length obviously within the game) but they do not represent actual real life meters in range. If that were the base the sunderer would be something like 20 feet wide. IE it would be a little less in width that a king tiger tank is long. 50m in PS translates to closer to 50 feet. Because meters are consistent in game, but not consistent with real life, your engagement ranges are actually significantly shorter in "real life terms" than the game represents them.This means the range you "appear" to be engaging at by your experience in the real world is entirely different than the actual engagement range you are in. Without using rangefinding implants you don't even get the data to pick this out without looking for it. For example, the TR soldiers from the back of the VR training (where the prowler and mosquito are) are 100m away at the closest in game meters.

Its an extreme example because it assumes I think no bullet drop is all that matters. No bullet drop between 570m/s and 600m/s is not the same as a 750m/s locust nosegun and a light PPA at 300m/s. In once case the difference is 5% and in the other its 60%.
The slowest velocity VS AR is 570m/s the fasted NC AR is 650m/s The total difference is only 13%. So yes, no bullet drop is a big deal.

Not only that but hulling down at all in a MR will often block your driver gun.

Already responded too. Graph does not represent gameplay situations. Battles don't occur between 2m cubes on a perfectly level surface with no cover, elevation, and with no part being more important than any other.

To be fair, no drop is pretty useful on scout rifles as well, only nobody pulls those anymore since the no-sway BASR changes made them utterly obsolete. NBD is a "free" faction perk. The balancing for it used to be a unique damage dropoff model (-1 tier but +50m or so) that was actually a net positive, but that was removed when SOE figured out that NBD isn't enough to warrant something to balance it.

Also the VS screamed about how awful the extra damage dropoff was while a few desperate souls who could do math tried to convince them that it actually meant they did MORE damage out to 70m or so. That was fun to watch happen, but not as much fun as watching the TR adamantly refuse to be given a Cyclone+ in the Bandit.

Lately the VS faction trait seems to be access to heat based weaponry, but for the most part it's bad DPM and "boring but effective, I guess"

Or you can see the whole situation in reverse, the other two factions complaining about the unfair advantage the VS had in close quarters, that led to this normalisation of damage drop off across the board. The change was received relatevely well by the VS, simply because up to that point shooting at an enemy beyond 70m with VS weapons was completely pointless (due to the severe damage degradation), and every VS was just zig zagging, trying to close the gap and fight at 50m or less.