What REALLY needs to happen with armor

I actually kind of hope the tank changes go through, I've always thought tanks weren't tough enough.

Of course, what I'm really hoping for is that the C4 change means that the devs might FINALLY remember a certain flighted class that could sure use some new guns... or abilities... or a tool... or a hug...

@Taemien - It isn't about being able to 'ride' on tanks.. it's about those moments, in order to save yourself from being blasted by said tank, that instead of running from the tank your only option is to get so close to it that the barrel can't physically shoot you.. but that doesn't exist in this game, as we all know. The tank can hit you no matter how close you are. It's janky and I don't care how people try to defend it.

@Chingles and Tibbers - Damn I'm tired of internet dorks who think they're military experts. Seriously, what you guys are asserting about shock waves from tank cannons is straight up false and in addition to that it has nothing to do with what I was talking about in my original post. If you're going to sit there and defend being killed by a tank cannon in A GAME that physically cannot hit you due to where the barrel is pointed, then I'm just gonna bow out of this thread and leave you to your fantasies.

On my way out I'll leave a couple videos of guys firing 155mm artillery, much larger than what was cited by Chingles, and watch how they all fall over dead from the shock wave -





You can even find videos of people very near actual tanks when they fire, and guess what.. yep. Living. But none of this matters because I shouldn't have to post videos of real life sh*t to make a point when this is a VIDEO GAME, and the point of my post has nothing to do with shock waves or anything other than video game tank shells hitting you when the projectile leaving the barrel couldn't possibly make physical contact with you at all! If you can't get that through your thick skulls then enjoy your stay in La La Land. I'm out!

I'm not defending it. I'm just saying that's how it is. Its unlikely we'll see it fixed because the alternative (which we used to have) didn't work. I don't remember exactly why, I think it had alot to do with different ES vehicles (Prowler, Vanguard, Reaver, Scythe, ect) were having disparities with firing their weapons accurately due to offsets.

And because of that, its probably best to understand it, know it exists, and just adapt to it. Because to be totally honest with you, I doubt they're changing it back. Its easier to tell a dude to stay away from tanks than it is to spend months balancing ES vehicle platforms based on where their weapons are. From my memory, they never could get it right so they chose an solution that worked, not elegant, but works.

Personally I'd like to see it perfect.. but we're not in a perfect world, nor a brand new thriving game.

Ah. But did I say that it would kill you? Hmmm... what were my exact words?

Ah hah. No sir, I did not say that the overpressure zone should kill you. Or would. But nonetheless it might and poses a significant danger to infantry.

Lol. Ur funny. Because I actually totally cited that same video in another thread of mine...

So yes, I'm well aware of how artillery operates. That being said, a 155mm howitzer is far different from a 120mm cannon. It was designed from the ground-up for crew to operate around it and as a result doesn't have the same overpressure issues that a tank cannon has. This of course is by design, and you know where that diagram of the overpressure tank zone came from?

The Infantry Battalion field manual of the US Army. Right there on page D-9. Along with all the other dangers to squishies on the battlefield (there are a lot of things your own side can do to you to get you hurt or killed).

I mean who's the internet dork who went "oh, 155 is a bigger number than 120 therefore I'm right"?

Now read what Tibbers claimed. Your exact words were that it makes 'logical sense' that you would/could be killed by the firing of a tank cannon even though the end of the barrel is past you and the projectile couldn't possibly hit you, followed by a diagram and then something about it usually not being lethal... which makes your post even more nonsensical. If you didn't think it's 'logical' for you to die in game under these circumstances, then why did you make the post saying what you said?

And again.. you are way off the point of my post when you continue down this path, and I'm questioning the motive for your making the post in the first place. Methinks you're a tanker who wants to be able to kill guys no matter where they are in relation to your tanks main cannon barrel.

As Taemien said, it's in the game and won't change.. I certainly was never under the impression it would. My post was simply saying that I think it's ridiculous that it works that way, and you should be able to escape the 'bad' end of the tank cannon as infantry by removing yourself from where the projectile normally comes out; because, you know, when you're caught in the open and your only choice is to get closer to the tank for safety, well, it makes sense you should be able to do that. It is a game after all. However if technical reasons dictate it must work this way, then it is what it is.

Really can't believe I'm doing this but

Does the manual explain why soldiers are trained to utilize tanks like this? You'll probably say because the tank won't fire with them so close, right? Of course.

Look at 2:58 of this video

See how the guy has half his body outside of the tank? I guess the deadly concussive effects are blocked or something, right? Of course.

You can do a cursory search and find plenty of still shots of soldiers near tanks when they are firing, tankers outside of the turret while firing, and you can find videos of it as well.

So what was your point again since we are so far away from the point I was making with my original post? Oh that's right, your point was that it's logical that we die if too close to the tank when it fires regardless of where the barrel is pointed and yet, according to you, it isn't usually lethal, all backed up by a diagram that says nothing more than hearing protection is needed when close to a firing tank. Okay dude!

Sigh... you actually didn't show that infantry are around the tank when it fires, yes?

I'll direct you to the Range Safety publication which governs being around shooting tanks. Specifically page 105. The table there should explain a lot to you, because you are in apparent need of education about how these things work.

The table shows the safe limits of what people can withstand when firing a particular shell. You'll notice several things. First, the type of round that is being fired can greatly impact if it's safe to be exposed to the firing or not. Whereas a tank commander sitting out of his hatch can be exposed to 26 rounds of M829 with one set of hearing protection, it would be unsafe for him to be exposed to a single round of M865 (trainer variant).

You'll also see that the exposed tank commander and other members of the crew have different safety ratings... depending on a number of variables. These result in many different outcomes for people who might be standing besides or behind a tank. For instance, when the tank is firing M831 rounds, someone wearing basic hearing protection standing behind the tank can safely withstand almost 100 shells. But if you switch that out with an M865, that number drops to 19. Beyond that, there is likely damage to occur to people behind the tank.

If you are besides the tank, your protection is significantly reduced. In the case of the M865, a single round is considered unsafe for anyone standing next to (not behind) the tank. Again, because of both noise and overpressure dangers.

So yes, to a large degree tanks are designed to block much of the noise and overpressure damage for the crew. Loaders, for example, are advised not to stick their heads out all the way when firing. Tanks were built that way, to reduce the amount of damage done to the crew. That being said, even for the tank crew there are limits to what they can safely withstand because with enough exposure damage will occur.

Naturally this also applies to people outside the tank as well.

I think he was thinking whether that was a glitch or maybe it has something to do with lag. Sure, real life info is good to know and relate to, but if it was meant to be in this way, what I would hope for is for it to be applied across all fractions so no fraction would be at a disadvantage or advantage.

CQC AI builds are not possible without C4 and rear armor buffs, unless you man against like 2 guys, lol. The speed and the absurdity of where C4 can be placed, like not even on your tank and still kill you is ********, plus good luck going CQC and not eating a couple rockets to the rear, not that it matters just a couple heavies with dumbfires will have you running before long without rear armor shots where you'll then most likely expose your rear and die to a rocket anyways, lol. On top of that HE/HEAT are useless for NC, long reload and lack of killing power while being in a tank that can barely get out of its own way is a recipe for disaster.