[Suggestion] Give the Valk a real role (remove ESF vert thrust)

Hear me out. I pilot for all three factions, and while I can't take credit for the idea, I loved the concept. Airsperg farmers in chromed autism sky chariots will whine in a symphony about it, but that doesn't change the fact that it would bring both balance and fun back to the air game.

Remove vertical thrust and AI nose gun weapons from ESFs, give them to the Valkyrie as a turret.

What this does:

Valkyrie becomes the premier anti-infantry support platform and has a defined, useful and needed role. This vehicle is closer in nature to a helicopter, more specifically a Huey/Apache. Because of the fragility of the platform, it's more easily fought and countered than an ESF, but still functions well for the role and provides a solid secondary role as a mobile squad platform. The vehicle becomes the airborne version of the harasser, and also carries the empire-specific qualities as harassers do (so the TR nosegun would have a banshee, NC the airhammer, VS a PPA).

ESFs become more suited toward anti-vehicle and anti-air roles. Skilled pilots will still be able to perform strafing runs against infantry, but the difficulty of doing so is increased. Some changes would likely need to be made to make the ESF more viable in it's redefined roles... lockons would likely need to be changed to be more fire-and-forget like traditional missiles, along with possible air-to-ground versions or removal of the "wire-guide" on hornets. Landing would need to be made easier in the case of resupplying ammo at towers. The skill ceiling for the vehicle is made significantly higher as a result, but retains it's effectiveness.

Liberators are a special case. I personally think that V-thrust should be retained for this platform, but that can be debated (it's pretty damned strong with or without it). Given it's natural enemy is the ESF, it might need adjustment.

Gals need to be left alone. Hover capability is essential for its role, but a hard limit needs to be put in place for the "safe drop" range. "Ceiling Gals" that exploit infantry's inexplicable inability to aim a rocket strait up needs a minor correction.

Side effect: Hossin is more suited to making air runs more difficult, as the original intention of the huge trees entails, and gives a special advantage to vehicles with hover capability.

I floated a similar idea in another thread, but basically they could just make it so vertical thrust on ESF burned afterburner fuel. Which would make it very dangerous to hover as you would have limited ability to flee. ESF should always have to be moving.

Oh and the Valk should get a built in afterburner like the harasser (along with passive logistics system)

edit: and agreed the ES AI type guns should be on the Valk, as that's easier for ground to retaliate against and better in a ground troop support role.

Give it a cloak.

I support the combination of these ideas, and together, think they sound great.

Making vertical thrust use afterburner fuel would make landing and takeoff more-or-less the same as it is now, meaning the introductory skill cap isn't as high. Nobody wants to screw up landing or takeoff, there will be plenty of trees to fly into later.

1) The fact that you need to call great pilots "autism sky chariots" means you're having big problems with piloting ESF. It also means you're a disrespectful bad player.

2) It won't bring any more balance or add fun. It would cut fun down for many people who like Hover feature. There is a ton of straight forward flying games and PS2 is hover/forward change possibility. Which is great and should stay like this.

You know that would make players try to use it for 'roadkilling' infantry and nothing else.

How about we nerf Liberator instead?

Handing out extreme nerfs to the ESF to make the Valk seem better? No thank you!

The Valk needs major buffs, that much is obvious, but dragging ESFs down isn't going to solve the problem. Making the Valk belly gun as powerful as the ESF nose guns is a start. The guns are all bad. Yes, it needs logistics by default. Yes it needs afterburner by default. It also needs better vertical thrust. Its like they made Valkyries out of lead just to make it soft and heavy. So basically, JUST BUFF THE THING!

This instead please....

Removing Vert / "VTOL" from ESF's would effectively demand that ESF's would have to be reduced to the price of a Flash because once we landed them in a "safe repairing location" we'd never be able to take off again without exploding instantly on the nearest tree branch or metal beam. Personally I'd rather just see the Hover frame get a real downside. Every experienced skyknight runs it for almost everything.... especially for dogfighting.

Higby's Hair is a Harasser, your argument is invalid
(Have it replace the darn GUN slot then .... hell, require that only an Infiltrator can activate it and then have it also disable Autorepair an extra 20 seconds... w/e helps to make this a real thing that we can use in Squad Ops)

I read the thread title and said "wait what? no."

Then I remembered where I stand on the ESF playground, so I'm actually all for this. I've advocated for a long time that ESFs should lack vertical thrust in a combat orientation (or at least, lose vert thrust as they slow down), simply because it better defines the vehicle's role... in fact, I'd rather have an air brake, than vertical thrust.

With the introduction of the Valkary I was actually excited for a potential ESF total rehaul, and still look forwards to one. Two things up there on my list are 1; higher speeds, which encourages flight away from the ground, and makes outrunning ground based lockons a thing; If you're defining the vehicle by removing it's infantry farming ability, you have to oblige it with the same, and AA encampments would still be able encourage the craft to leave their airspace. 2; better maneuverability in every stat, except, of course, vertical thrust.

With those two things focused on and stamped out, the rest can be calibrated to the new numbers, and better defined fighter craft role.

as a side note, I'm all for redefining all three empire specific AI cannons into empire specific AV cannons, for those who would like to focus on strafing runs, keeping in mind that this is not the vehicle's main role. I'd also like to see the wire guided missiles changed to bombs... that's kinda what everyone wanted out of them anyways... heck, make them whistle.

As for the lack of airfields, we already have some bases with a runway like structure (tech plants) that could easily be converted for the purpose, though it may require the introduction of a landing mechanic. The speed increases for the ESF's should otherwise make returning to the warp gate a viable alternative when the faction lacks a tech plant (hey, look, Meta game introduction, just like that).
_____________________
The Valkary really doesn't need much of a change beyond what it is now. I'm honestly more than OK with it as it stands, it's more than capable of avoiding incoming ground based fire from everything aside from lockons, however, there's one glaring fact that bothers me about the craft.

The Valkary's primary role was defined as a rapid air transport... I propose that the ejection seat be made integral to this craft, and that it be able to transport ground based vehicles that initiate a tether request (cant have it picking up and dropping ennemy vehicles, or for trolling).... look at the thing, it honestly looks like it was designed to pick things up, and there are so many other better things that ejection seat slot takes up, I literally have to tell people it's equipped with it before they'll even get in the craft; That's not intuitive, in fact, it's counter productive to it's stated role.

To that effect, I'd also be OK with anyone wanting to really use it as a tranport vehicle, replacing trhe gunner seat with the vanguard's temporary shield ability. At least on this vehicle, it actually makes sense.

Finally, Leave the infantry farming to the Liberators, that's their role, seriously, let them have it.

How often do you die to liberators?

sigh.... I probably aught not to post on this... but "removing" or "nerfing" anything at this point is a bad idea... nerfs, as you well know, do not work!

I know you feel that the Valk is UP, as do I, but we don't need to play the crab in the bowl, pulling down everything/one above us? Instead you could call for a very much needed buff to your beloved Valk... but we always resort to nerf the other thing....

In my opinion... ESFs are over performing when fighting ground... but that's no need for me to call a nerf on that aspect. It takes skill and time combined with know how and awareness to do what pilots do. I personally will never ask for a nerf to that skill. It adds no fun and creates no depth to gameplay. Instead I look for options to counter it.. (As TR thats often hard due to short range low accuracy AV options). I suggest we all start to do the same, and if none can be found, ask for buffs. I would like buffs to Striker AA, Max AA (range) and perhaps Skyguard CoF tightening.

The problem with the valk right now is the same problem with Striker 2.0. They don't want to introduce OP stuff and don't quite know how to balance new items around a creative community. So instead of asking something be nerfed to help you feel stronger, ask to be stronger.

Not necessarily a few people would, but given all the tiny rocks/branches that can instagib you it wouldn't be a problem.

as the worst pilot in planetside, i approve this message

the valk is a troop transport. It can carry 6 people. The esfs can only carry 1 person at a time. Valkyrie thus 6 times better at its job than an esf already.

This is an idea I could go for. Removing weapons is way too much of a change (besides I don't want to try to even think of getting close enough to us the Airhammer on a Valk).

You could go further and let the different airframes affect the vertical burners in different ways. Obviously racer wouldn't affect it much, but Dogfighter could make it boost more while Hover would add more time to it (takes less fuel over time).

Choices without taking anything away, I like it.

Remove the fun from ESF and you have two unfun things instead of one.

ESFs are in a good place right now. As a problem with all vehicles in this game, they are powerful in small fights and worthless in large fights, but relatively speaking they fulfill their role as the speedster in the game. Also note that all vehicles in this game have AI weapons, as infantry make up the overwhelming majority of the players, so removing them is pretty much impossible. They should buff the AI weapons on the Valk so it has a reason to stick around with 2 occupants. I also favor giving it afterburners as an utility, to broaden its range of uses for creative players.

and no one would ever use them again. you should get a job at SOE.

also why do people make these posts. its never gonna make it into the game. just save your time and energy. watch a youtube video and eat a snickers or something.

I'd rather we just add in a real air-superiority fighter.