Why do I feel like VS is underperforming a bit?

I've hit BR100 on VS a month ago, and since then I started playing TR and NC. Here's my conclusions:


TR has the best AV harasser weapon, best MBT primary, MBT ability almost tied to NC, best MAX-vs-MAX (pounders).

NC has the best MBT ability, best Harasser and MBT AI weapon, best AV max (Ravens still OP, just a daily reminder), best AI max.

Since the banshee nerf, VS has the best AI weapon on ESF. Although airhammer is close, and unlike PPA it can be also be used in dogfights... AI max range is a little bit longer than TR. Aaand that's pretty much it.

Are VS really getting dumped on so much by SOE, or is it just me?

VS is in a fine spot, lots of things that VS have are fun interesting and effective. If anything, TR just needs a little push in a few small areas, if not effectiveness then maybe the fun and interesting aspects. And maybe the Vanguard isn't feeling very survivable these days.

TR has the best Max vs. Max weapon? Bwahahahahahahahaha... step in front of my Falcons once, I dare you.

The Pounders edge out the Falcons Max vs. Max at close range. The Falcons would win more if it weren't for the high refire time. Pounders easily oneclip a MAX, even if it has Flak.

Pounder are pretty good against maxes.

They seem to be able to one clip maxes if every shot hits. Most maxxes run from me the second they see I have ponders. Plus they are pretty decent against infantry so you can fight them at the same time.

unless you are fighting at long range but you really should be in many long range fights with a max

Its the NC that is just outright OP in comparison to VS/TR to me. They have a monopoly on 200 damage infantry weapons, best of the 167 damage weapons, Ravens perform as well as Pounders but do much better at AV thus tons more XP/certs and much better range than Pounders, a scatmax will drop a Pounder MAX up close and just melt you, the Reaver has the best abilities for A2A (strong ABs and strong v-thrust plus with racer frame it totally can keep up to a Mossie). Their MBT is the one that can easily swat ESFs out of the skies, not to mention its i win shield.

The AH is just outright better than the LPPA - because it can do much better A2A than the LPPA and its AI is almost identical.

The NC have it all going for them. Even sniper rifles like the Phaseshift and TRAP-M1 aren't very useful compared to the Railjack. NC has lots of CQC power (Jackhammer/ScatMAX), ranged power (Gauss SAW, Reaper DMR, AC-X11, Ravens), cheese power (Phoenix spam from safety where you can't be shot in return), etc.

As a person who plays all 3 factions quite a bit, I would rank the effectiveness of each faction's arsenal thusly:
1. NC
2. VS
3. TR

That being said, I enjoy playing all 3 and never feel particularly UP on any faction (aside from looking for a long range AV option on TR)

Also, the categories you're using are very situation specific*. Best MBT ability for doing what? Best AI MAX in what situation?

*Ravens do need to be adjusted, but thats already been announced.

VS is more than fine:
- best hit-n-run/extremely agile tank (Magrider)
- extreme-longrange AV weapons (Lancer/Vortex)
- great starter LMG (Orion)
- good ESF for 1vs1 dogfighting
- effective suppression weapons (PPA, L-PPA, Lasher)
- no-bulletdrop scout/battle rifles

some things may need a small buff (PPA) or complete rework (ZOE) in the VS arsenal, but apart from that we are more than fine


- VS player since release

VS may have problems, but we're not UP: The Lancer/Vortex need to be nerfed A TINY LITTLE BIT (though I'd rather they weren't as SOE would overnerf them), the Saron is good, the Scythe has some of the best stuff, Blueshifts... Well, we could do worse.

I mean we don't have Pounders or Ravens, nor do we have an ES ability for the MAX, nor ground-based AI, nor do we have P210s, nor do we have a good direct combat ESHW, or a freaking Railjack, or acceptable ES semi-auto pistols, but VS do get some enviable stuff.

VS are fine. Magrider is the most agile tank ment to flank and ambush that's why it's got a weaker cannon. Neither NC or TR tanks are as strong or fun as you think. Vulcan is strong but not op as many noobs would like everyone to believe. I much rather have saron and enforcer buffed than more nerf hammers. And yeah ppa got overnerfed hard but that's just something we got to endure. Just like tr with striker and NC with their hacksaws.

OP forget bests LMGs with orion/betlgeuse/SVA wich nullifies HA(most common class) shield weakness.

Of course, NS15M does it too, but at 620RPM, not at 750 or 698RMP.

DashRender, the refire time doesn't much matter, considering that you can hold your shield up during it.

For infantry weapons:
VS has a moderate skill floor and a high skill ceiling. TR has a low skill floor and a moderate skill ceiling. NC has a low skill floor and a high skill ceiling. TR have the most CQC oriented weapons and the best crowd control outside of LMGs. VS has best accuracy at range (its marginal, but it counts for something) along with stand out weapons like the Terminus and Orion/Battlegoose. NC has the best weapon variety and the best headshot TTKs. TR suffers in anything with accuracy or range to it. VS suffers with low DPM and high FSRM. NC suffers with high vertical recoil.

For Vehicles:
TR has the best artillery focused tank and best tank v. Galaxies and Libs. VS has the best ambush/flank tank and the tank least likely to get C4ed (its kinda hard to explain this advantage). NC has the best close range brawler tank and best anti-ESF tank. TR struggles with having two shots instead of one, and doesn't do well against ESFs. VS has a forward only, weak main gun and is easy to kill from behind. NC has the tank most vunerable to C4 and does very poorly against infantry.

For air vehicles:
lol they are all pretty much the same.

For MAXes:
NC has the best CQC MAX, the best AV MAX, and the best MAX for point holds. TR has the best MAX v. MAX weapons and the best AA MAX. VS has the most accurate MAX weapons and has some okish AV weapons. NC suffers heavily at range with AI weapons and has a very buggy ability. TR has the worst AI weapons and the worst AV at range. VS has the worst ability (ZOE) and only has one good AI weapon (from what I can tell).


There is what I have concluded as a brisk overview of every faction's downsides and upsides. I personally think NC comes out on top because of weapon chooice versatility, but that is just me.

I agree with just about all of this except for NC having a lower skill floor than VS in infantry weapons. The SAW/Merc are somehow easier to use than the Orion/Solstice?

I've been on and off with the shield, to me it's unusable. Too many times I've put the shield down to fire and the weapons are jammed. Sometimes you have good enough support that you can get away alive, but most times this is goodbye MAX. Not being able to fire is a pretty big downside. The bug has been there since a balance pass shortly after the shield came out well over a year ago, I haven't played the game in 6 months and when I come back it's STILL not fixed. Compound that with the fact that sometimes explosives like grenades/C4/Rockets will go straight through the shield and inflict full damage even staring directly at them (it wasn't always like this) I just can't use the shield anymore, not until it's been fixed. Charge is too good to give up for a buggy shoddy ability that gets you killed more than it helps you.

Merc has a combination of good DPM, DPS, and has a very good recoil pattern. The SAW is an outlier because for some reason a genius decided to give NC newbs the least newb friendly weapon for NC. I am instead thinking of weapons like the GD-22S, EM6, and EM1. I am also thinking of carbines such as the GDF-7, Razor GD-23, and of course the merc.

The Solstice requires you to be a very precise shot to make those 30 143 bullets count. This requires you to get a higher level of accuracy and HSR compared to TR and NC weapons. Orion is pretty easy to use, but it is roughly the only exception to this rule (fact is, most of the LMGs are).

Of course these are my opinions and not hard fact. So take my evaluations with a grain of salt.

VS get:
the only splash weapon that infantry can use in the entire game (Lasher),
Sniper rocket launcher that can finish off tanks and even libs/gals (or ESFs with practice) at great distance,
the hardest armor to spot at night, on ultra VS are pretty dam invisible lol,
the only weapons with INFINITE AMMO, including a sniper rifle for infiltrators far away from engineers,
the quietest OHK knife passive sound (which is similar to alot of the sounds you hear in bases)
Swagrider can quite reliably dodge rockets and EStank shots if you use strafe chassis like i do.
forgot to add that the engineer AI turret shield for vanu also is the tallest, it sees headshots and says FU!

Well you can't really know if you only play 1 faction, can you? Anyway,

- Magrider is more or less a heavy harasser. Other factions need their heavy harassers, and Vanu needs their real MBT
- Lancer/Vortex are very nice indeed, but so are Phoenix and Ravens. TR are screwed on this one
- Starter weapons? Look at all weapons, not just starter ones. And if you want to look at starter weapons, SAW and Carv are pretty good too.
- Huh, from what I've noticed all ESFs are pretty much equal
- PPA is garbage, but Lasher is very good, I forgot about it
- No bullet drop is useless. I've never been in a situation where I thought "Thanl god I had no bullet drop, or I wouldn't have been able to kill him", or when playing as TR/NC "If only I had no bullet drop..." In fact it's so useless that I mainly use NS weapons when playing VS

That's a nice half full outlook. Lets look at the half empty version:

• Lasher is the worst performing of all the ES heavy weapons. It is however unique in the game
• As you said, finish off, because the damage output is pathetic on it's own
• I actually find TR harder to spot, though NC are pretty hard to spot on Amerish and Hossin as well.
• Stick with the Parallax. The Phaseshift is among the worst performing sniper rifles in the game, and ammo is not an issue for the majority of snipers.
• Knife sounds, irrelevant
• Magrider is indeed a very good tank, if used as a heavy harasser. A lot of people try to use it as a proper tank and get destroyed by the other two empires.
• Engineer turret, irrelevant, as long as you can see the head in the middle it means dead engineer on all empires.

You can actually do a lot better finding good points for the VS, but you really need to play the empire, instead of just being on the receiving end.

It also doesn't help much when your own empire has the best collection of infantry weapons in the game and the only OP stuff you can find on the opposition is the slightly higher engineer turret. As if engineer turrets are actually relevant in infantry killing statistics.

The Magrider makes a great ranged siege tank, at least against NC. I've seen armor pushes obliterated by Magriders because the Vanguards and their gunners can't reliably hit the Mags while they're strafing and there's a second and a half shell travel time, but the "traditional" tank style Vanguards are easy to hit and lead. From driving the Mag I know it's not chock full of laughs not being able to look around without rotating the entire thing, but as for power and efficiency, the Mag is on the higher end.

Just last night I solo'd a 2/2 shielded BR100 Vanguard in close quarters because I played smart. He peeked the hill and I dodged his shells until I got enough hits for him to have to retreat so I jumped up the hill and did the solo MBT 1-2 punch jumping between main gun and secondary. He shielded, but the shield quickly dropped and before you knew it I had two NC deaths on my killboard and a Mag that wasn't even in the red... Also just to recap, I didn't have a gunner at the time. I'm not saying the Mag is OP, but it certainly has some very strong traits in its favor. Anyway, thought that was a fun story that was worth telling.