Comparison of new Vulcan vs Saron in VR training

I'm not much of a forumsider, but for this specific matter I had to log in. The new Vulcans are OUTRAGEOUSLY overpowered, and as a Magrider driver I now fear the vulcan Harassers more than any of the pre-nerf harassers when they came out.

Most lethal tank battles are at short range, if it's over 120-150 meters between the two tanks the one who is in trouble can usually cover - or at least pull back to an area where the attacking MBT will take a formidable risk entering to "finish" it. And at this distance the saron gunner have to wait between each shot if it wants to hit more than 3-4 / 6 shots, so don't pretend that you're at this major disadvantage at this range TR, at least not against VS: We're not buying it!

Besides, you already have the FASTEST MBT in the game, so getting up close to enemies is what your tank is built to do. And the Harasser basically a rocket with wheels and a weapon strapped on it, if you fail to get up close to enemies with this bad boy something tells me that you would have a hard time getting a kill even with a ******* claymore.

I agree with the last statement. I wasn't trying to but the problem with the Saron is it's pretty picky. It is pretty efficient at close range. And pretty good on MBT at a medium range. But Against harassers they are generally not so great. Well the vulcan is really effective against other Harassers. They are different things to say the least.

Contrary to popular belief, "perfect imbalance" does not mean "the game is imbalanced in favor of MY faction".

Too often I see people using that video in the context of:

"X unit/item is OP."
"Well I use X unit/item and I love being OP, so it's perfect!"

Vulcan Prowlers and Harassers are a non issue with double Vortexes and Lancers.

The nice thing about TR is that you can choose between a great close-range and a great long-range weapon, while NC got two long range weapons and VS got a close/midrange-weapon, Saron (with the most overestimated long-range capabilities in the game included) and a long range wep.

Sure, in long range, if you and your rival have an agreement where nobody is allowed to bail if they're losing the match, the Magrider with saron would be alright. But how many times do that happen? Rarely... it will either turn into a close-combat situation/one of the tanks will escape or, if you're a noob, you get killed.


Except for a few open areas on Esamir you always have the chance to place yourself behind a rock/back off over the hilltop/move into base and repair if the long-range match doesn't go in your favor. If you spent that break actually repairing your vehicle and not scratching your balls you will be at a major advantage if the magrider desides to pursue you. NC with their shield, and TR with their "IWIN" weapon (yes, that's the new name).

And by the way... are you seriously using the basilisks as an argument to avoid close-combat when you have a VULCAN mounted on your MBT? If the basilisk can hit your Prowler the vehicle the basilisk is strapped on should be dead before that vehicles poor, dead gunner will ever need to reload.

Against sunderers basilisk is the only weapon that can hit a midrange harasser.

I don't use vulcan on anything, that is really only a weapon for 2/2 prowlers and 2/3 harassers.
I do AP + walker prowler, and halberd harasser.

A 2/2 AP + vulcan prowler will surely BBQ a vehicle at close range. That didn't change if you kept up with the patch notes. Damage didn't increase. The change was to extend the effective range of the weapon.

So if you have a suggestion for how to change the weapon in a way that a secondary gunner would ever use it please do share. Nobody was using it not because of its low damage, but because its effective range was useless. There was no versatility.

We're all ears.

I do not find relevant to compare the TTK of the saron and the vulcan, because every fights are purely situational and the assumptions of a static fight are just unreal.
However, to all who think that the Saron is a snipping weapon, I suggest you to learn from Takara, because he is totally right.
In fact, the Saron is a far better weapon at close range than at long range.
It was an effective snipping weapon two years ago...

You have probably never played TR. Go ahead and try using a prowler for CQC tank battles if you really think that's what it's built for.

The harasser vulcan may be performing significantly better, but nowhere does it indicate that the MBT vulcan is "out of place."
In fact, the only things that the MBT vulcan excels at doing over its counterparts is getting "headshot kills" and a slightly more aircraft kills. Otherwise it still lags behind in most other aspects, according to ps2oraclestats charts.

Show some proof instead of spouting out hypotheticals, please.

IMHO the new vulcan for the Harraser might be a tad op in my mind mostly becuase I'm more afraid of fasing a Harraser with a vulcan than a Prowler with anything. and it should not be like that at all.

This has mostly to do with the high speed and accaleration of the Harraser making it good to either flank enemey tanks quickly or rush them in a way they know they have a low chance of getting hit (moving from tree to tree etc.) I drive and gun a magrider and it is practically impossible to hit a Harraser with the main gun if the Harraser is circling you. With the secondary it is at least possbile becuase the turret actually moves quite quickly.

I'll gues we'll see what SOE does when they come back to work after the Holidays.

The Vulcan is quite OP. You just have to see groups of 5 driving around MBTs and tearing them apart before they start smoking ... and the fact that when you manage to destroy one, the pilot immediatly respawns a new one ...

A more comprehensive test would be to do this same test at 3 different ranges, say:
50m, 150m, 300m

And do it against, say, a Sunderer, a Harasser and a MAX.
(Vulcan TTK on a MAX at 300m...... hmmm.... 3 minutes?? Or would you run out of ammo first? Who's taking bets?)


Not that anyone would actually use a Vulcan at 300m but it would help highlight the ACTUAL balance between a Saron and a Vulcan. Otherwise you might as well compare TTK of a knife versus that of an LMG, but only test it at 0m. ZOMG KNIVES ARE OP. BETTER THAN LMG UNDER ALL (tested) CONDITIONS.

Sorry, you want a mbt to be able to kill 5 harassers? 2 vs 10 and 2 wins? Seriously? That also has nothing to do with tr Vulcan or the buff. 5 enforcer harassers? Will kill everything, as will 5 of anything... 5 fury flashes? Dead tank. 5 heavy assaults? Dead tank.

The pre-buff vulcan was just the same when used properly, people just didn't use them. People were convinced the harassers and the vulcan were awful so they didn't use them.

The problem would be if 1 harasser could kill a full health 2/2 mbt, and you know what? It can if the crew are bad and the har crew are good. My outfit have been doing s lot of harasser play in the past few months, even before the buff and you know what? Not much difference you can get away with longer engagement ranges, and more tank crews bail out and run before you kill them.

Half of it is a panic factor, people think the Vulcan is op, they get jumped by a stealth har and then they bail run and redeploy - they don't fight.

You can kill a vanguard 1 v 1 but the crew need to be distracted or the tank damaged or just bad but to easily kill a vanguard you need 2 to attempt it or actually to feel safe about it 3 hars. A mag you can fight 1 v 1 but it is still stupidly risky, you need to drive under them. Again you need 2 to effectively go for it, or 3 to be sure you are unlikely to lose someone.

You know what? Any av har weapon would do the same, 3 halberd hars firing at the back of one tank? Game over...

This is true of Sarons and Enforcers too. Actually even the Fury is super deadly when you have 5 Harassers coordinating with them. Massed explosive death everywhere.

I do think that 150 nanites for Harassers is too low. Honestly I'd put it at 300 and see how that feels. I think Sunderers are too cheap, too.

A prowlers natural habitat is on a desolate hill, farming easy kills while in anchor mode. This playstyle doesn't promote teamplay, and it sure as hell won't do it with a weapon meant for CQB - even if it's the best one at it. This is partly the players fault, and partly SOEs fault for giving the Prowler an ability (anchor) and 2nd gun that doesn't synergize too well.

So the way I would change it is to change their ability to something you can benefit from "on the move". Having the best close range weapon, and now the best mid-range weapon wouldn't have much to say in real life, but in a game where shell velocity is as low as a medieval catapult, and the drop of it not too much better either (well, at least for magrider main guns) short and mid-range is all that matters, really.

Make it more ineffective at mid-range, but improve the ability for close-range encounters - that way the prowlers stay competitive and the harassers won't be too overpowered.

Yes, because what you are doing is SO MUCH better. You are distorting the facts, and only using them where it benefits your own arguments. You casually say "the harasser vulcan MAY be performing better", as if you don't know this for a fact. Thanks for telling me about ps2oraclestats charts, allow me to do the same thing as you're doing: here's your proof.

double post, ignore this

Saron isn't an AV sniper.
That would be the Halberd.

Just because it can do -some- damage at long range doesn't mean it's a sniper.

... then what the hell was the point of using the Saron over the Halberd?

If the harasser cost much more (for VS and NC at least) it wouldn't really be worth using over a Lighting.
The odd one out is the vulcan. No need to change something on a wide scale just because of a single outlier.

Kills by itself doesn't say much, if you don't know the population those kills are divided to. The old PPA-H had comparable performance to the Marauder, but the kills were off the charts because 6 times the VS were using it compared to the TR. So, if we look at averages per population we get:

6121 - G20 Vulcan-H | KPH | Daily Average: 37.21
6126 - Saron HRB-H | KPH | Daily Average: 36.64
6123 - Enforcer ML65-H | KPH | Daily Average: 32.54

that makes vulcan even better, miss with a saron shot and you lose a lot of TTK.
vulcan is a hose, you'd have to be a pretty aweful aim indeed to miss enough shots to match saron's punishment for missing.

Comparing the Vulcan with Saron is unfair. Another big ussie with the Vulcan is that it can chew through infantry like there's no tomorrow. The Saron had its damage output vs infantry nerfed at the same time as its accurracy, and nowadays shooting after inf with this weapon is hardly more than wasted time (unless the guy is AFK).
The Vulcan can damage very quickly any kind of target. The well known paper-stone-scissors principle is utterly baffled by this weapon. And the fact that an Harasser can flee as easily as ... something that can flee very very swiftly ... makes that combo an over powerful vehicle.