[Suggestion] Vulcan needs some adjusting (aka nerf the Vulcan)...

Hey all,

Let me please start by saying...(1) I have never, ever, not once in my 11 years of playing this title suggested ANY nerfs of ANY weapon. I enjoy a challenge, and I like that certain weapons give certain situational advantages...to a point. (2) I don't want to see anything nerfed to the point of uselessness, I just want "God mode" removed!

So, as an NC player primarily, I hear A LOT of whining about the Raven's anti-armor capability. It does a decent job, but I've never felt like I could solo a field of armor with them. lol. I hear A LOT of calls to nerf the Ravens. Lately, those cries have come from the TR.

Then, I see the Vulcan appear on the field...and I have never, ever seen a weapon as all-around powerful as this on the ground.

Doing some quick numbers to see which seems more OP than the other, here's what the math looks like.

Dual Ravens
Cost: 2000 certs
DPM: 32,160 (335 dmg x 48 rpm each)
DPS: 536
Slow reload, extremely slow fire rate, slow moving platform, relatively low ammo capacity, higher resource cost

Vulcan Harasser
Cost: 1000 certs
DPM: 133,600 (167 dmg x 800 rpm)
DPS: 2,227
Slow reload, extremely fast fire rate, extremely fast and agile platform, decent ammo capacity, lower resource cost

...come on now. That thing is solo killing Vanguards on the field. 2 Vulcan Harassers together can take on a batallion of armor. Can we please have a look at adjusting this a little?

People complain about the DISTANCE Ravens can be used and still do insane damage.

Ummm, don't forget to account for resistances to tanks, those numbers are only for infantry damage. Also the Vulcan has a wind up time, spread and does less damage per shot at range. Also next time you feel like posting a nerf thread, please compare it to its equivalents (the other 2 ESAV weapons). And lastly, a harasser with just the Vulcan bought will do pretty bad without an equipment slot such as stealth/composite amour and fire suppression.

Vulcan-H: idk how this cleared QA, waaaay to powerful.

Vulcan: Its fine, leave it be until proven OP.

Separate vehicles need separate balancing. Vulcan and Vulcan-H are not too different in stats but the vehicle they are on make all the difference.

now why do you ask for an nerf on a decent weapon
you would do better if you ask for an buff of an equal NC weapon
what do you want
good weapons for all factions or that we all shoot peashooters?

You're comparing a long range tank busting Max weapon, vs a close range tank busting brawler.

You're surprised it does well at close range?

It's finally turned into a solid weapon, and now it's too much.


On top of that, a Vulcan harasser is much harder to be successful with, largely because it's bigger, and requires a gunner.

The Ravens are used by one guy. Two ravens, on a small, mobile platform.

The only bonus oddly enough, is that the Harasser is cheap, so you can spam them. But they still get taken out easily.

The success of a Vulcan-H relies heavily on the driver knowing when it hit, and how to escape. Because the Vulcan certainly can't go long range very well, it can do well at close range, and moderately at medium range, then it just falls apart. Much like a shotgun, except it's a mini-gun.

TR accuses NC of op ravens
NC accuses TR of op vulcanH

in the meantime, VS sits in the corner remembering good old times, with late nerf of a weapon that was stupid cert grinder on spawnrooms, and not real combat asset - and all other things mediocre at best.

As for the "vanguard being eaten". Are you serious? With a dedicated gunner it usually takes 3 Vulcan Harrasers to kill my Magrider, you have shield that gives you time to find him, AP cannon that kills himin 2 not 3 shots and you STILL complain?

How about leave your 3x zoom once in a while and look at the map.

Our maxes are below average at AV duty, our harassers make up for it.

If I was in charge of balance, I'd put the Vulcan-H back to how it was with a small buff to magazine size. It was still effective back then but it really needed a fully certed out mag size and near 100% gunner accuracy. You had get in very close, which was fine as a play style, but it needed a bit of room for error. Then I'd improve fractures with a velocity tweak.

I consider myself a good Harasser driver, my Harass is fully certed out. I think the Vulcan-H is effective but it's far from easy mode vehicle farming. It's high risk high reward. Maybe the reason for the whine is that Harassers are so cheap, so the "high risk" part of that seems less relevant.

Tankers need to be aware when fighting TR that they are likely to be ambushed by the Vulcan-H and react accordingly. If you are losing your 2/2 Vanguard to a single Vulcan-H ambush, you need to have words with your gunner.

For 11 years of Knowledge you make a very poor comparison between a long range max weapon and a shot range vehicle weapon, I do believe you could not make a worse comparison.

If solo harasser's are taking out Vanguards then quite frankly you need to look at the drivers of the vanguard's, because you can balance the game for most, but the inept and useless should not be considered in balancing weapons.

and to quote " 2 Vulcan Harassers together can take on a batallion of armor " wtf, were they all a sleep or being driven buy the blind?

Oh please, the VS loyalists on this forum have been screaming and crapping themselves over the Ravens and Banshee since everyone found out the PPA was being nerfed.

The style of the TR versus NC weapons really does favor the TR here. Not that this is a bad thing, just something that I think needs mentioning/recognition.

It's a simple fact that there's a direct relationship between (1) the amount of rounds you throw down range, and (2) the amount of damage you're going to inflict on your targets. The more lead you can sling, the more damage you're going to do, and the more forgiving the statistics will be when you miss a few rounds.

If you're firing 1 shot every 10 seconds, and miss 30% of the time (70% accuracy), compare that to firing 1 shot every 1 second with the same accuracy. That's the TR style of weapon and DPS design, compared to the NC style of weapon and DPS design.

Unfortunately, the average player with full auto weapons is going to be scoring in the 20-30% accuracy range. HUGE benefit to something like a MCG compared to a JH, overall.

So, that having been said...

I'm an above average Dual Raven player. And a half-way decent Harasser driver is nearly impossible to hit with Ravens unless he gets stuck, flips over, or happens to drive directly toward or away from you. My post above came after a battle this morning where I spend 25 mins trying to at least DISCOURAGE the two Vulcan Harassers from entering the area. Of course, it didn't work...they just run you over, or they easily evade your fire while spraying you with a steady stream of bullets. It reminds me of old 80's space-themed arcade shooters, where you got the "laser" weapon power-up, and it shoots a solid stream of damage with no gaps...so you can just spray away.

At any rate - it seems silly to claim the Raven is "super OP" when you have something like the Vulcan Harasser to easily evade their fire while spraying them with a steady stream of massively stronger DPS, with the option to just run them over if you feel like it.

With the NC weapon designs (very slow rate of fire), a Harasser is VERY difficult to hit. And the number of TR Harassers on the field seem to prove that the TR knows this to be true. When that evasion capability is coupled with such a massively powerful do-everything weapon, it's out of balance.

I would HAPPILY settle for an NC version of the Vulcan Harasser instead of a nerf - the Enforcer and the Halberd are fine against a stationary target, but since you gave all the other factions shotguns (which used to be unique to NC) - how about you give us a spray-and-pray lead slinger and make it fair?! Please??!!?

If the NC had anything even REMOTELY similar to the Vulcan, I would have had it a long time ago. It's way too strong...and I would love to have that advantage too.

Option 1: Nerf.

Option 2: Common pool Vulcan style weapon.

Pretty please? Thanks!

1. Wind up time? Since when does that matter, it's only 1 sec, 90 % of the time harrasers get the jump and that doesnt matter. Other ESAV have drawbacks too dont forget, stop being blind for you'r own faction.
2. Comparing, that's what we are doing . Other ESAV cant kill a vanguard in one clip from behind , but vulcan can. Vulcan even wrecks the van with shiled on and has couple of bullets left.
3. What is this donkey s*** about a vulcan harraser will do pretty bad without stealth composite and fire supression. Dunno, was there an update? Do the other epires use something else that we do better? I mean we use the same slots and vulcan outperforms us by a great margin.
A great number of TR admit that vulcan didn't need a buff.
Lastly it proves that you are not subjective, clearly you are blind for you'r own faction.

First off....what are you doing raven firing in an open area where Harassers can run you over?

Even the VS go up to higher places.

Secondly, the "stream" of bullets aren't so effective. Earlier today I managed to man a prowler Vulcan. And even though I'm spam firing, the one Max I tried to get, just didn't suffer enough for it to matter. As opposed to if I manned an Enforcer, or Halberd. Where I could knock the wind out of him in one shot.

The Vulcan does however do ridiculously well at hitting groups and those pesky c4 fairies in the distance. But then again, that's if they're pretty close, and you're not moving.

Also a lot of raven wielders found it highly beneficial to fire one arm at a time. Higher firing rate, so your misses aren't as bad.

I know I rarely let things get away that way.

Ask anyone who's driven a VS or TR Harasser. I have for example.

Saron or Vulcan-H, I'll been hit often by NC Maxes. The only Max that hits almost everytime, is the VS Max wielding Vortexes.

The only Max that cries, is the Terran, because the Fractures are a repulsive piece of crap, only good for hitting parked things.

The only possible advantage of the Vulcan-H overall that I can think of, is the ammunition and firing rate. Missing for a Terran is less of a problem compared to an NC or VS missing with a Saron or Enforcer.


The only faction and weapon I can think of that truly suffers from the Vulcan buff, is the Vanu, with the Saron.

I run Sundies often...I have both Block Armor and Shield Sundies.

I can't tell you HOW many times I've left a base, got jumped by a Vulcan Harasser, and I was blown up from just 2 salvos from that Vulcan.

Literally, the SECOND I hear a Vulcan spin up, I turn around and head back to base, while hitting my fire suppression at the same time. I know that I have ZERO chance, even with 2 gunners on my Basilisks, of defending myself against a Vulcan Harasser. If he lights up that gun 2-3 times, I'm dead. Period.

The same is NOT true for ANY of the NC Harassers...they are slow firing and easy to avoid, and they also aren't nearly as strong.

So I ask you...how is that fair or balanced, if none of our (Nanite Systems?!?!) Harassers can do what yours can? Aren't NS weapons supposed to be common pool anyway?!

Decimator:
1335 damages
30m/sec initial velocity-60m/sec final velocity
4.7 sec/relaod

Titan AP:
2075 damages
275m/sec
4 sec/reload (wich can be upgraded)

Clearly titan AP needs serious nerfs!
/sarcasm




TLDR: vulcan-H & ravens are both OP, vulcan-H didn't needed that +30bullet buff and raven needs damage or range or maniability nerf, they hit too hard, too reliably and from too far.

...don't comment on things you haven't read. That doesn't help anyone.

This is an unfair comparison.

Do you think every shotgun is OP beyond count simply because they have incredible DPS that outshines just about any infantry weapon? If you do, you are sorely mistaken there as well.
The shotgun has an incredible advantage, but it trades in something as well. It gives up long-range capabilities. Even the shortest-range Carbine has a longer effective range while hipfiring than the shotgun. You can ofcourse sacrifice some DPS for longer range by selecting slugs... but at that point, why are you using a shotgun?

The Vulcans are the same. They are an ultimate CQC weapon, they should be powerful as hell in CQC. If you are at longer ranges the Vulcan can unload entire mags and you barely see any damage. I was in a lightning today and two Vulcans on Prowlers decided to shoot me at range, despite a simphony of bullet impacts my health just wouldn't go down. After about 2 magazines I decided to use my fire supression... and it healed me completely. Where just about every other AV weapon deals more damage than your fire supression can heal.

Harasser Vulcans aside, the Vulcan is actually in a really good place right now.

So if the TR and NC both have an OP AV weapon, then shouldn't they just give the VS an OP AV weapon?

1. All I'm saying is that the wind up time does exist, no matter how minute of a flaw it is. And I do know that the other ESAV weapons do also have their strength and weaknesses, I'm just pointing out that the Vulcan does also have its own flaws to not make it godly at everything.
2. Well good for the Vulcan, because that is really the only way for it to be used effectively, as an ambush weapon. What it loses in range and alpha damage it makes up for it with high sustained damage.
3. That was in regards to the OP saying that ravens cost twice as much certs as a Vulcan or other ESAV harasser, but if your going to want to use ether of these you would need to buy things like max speed upgrade, ammo/reload, armor/stealth, sights VS Just two weapons for your max and flak armor. Just saying that there is more to the cost than JUST the weapon.

Why is a harasser weapon compared to av max weapons in order to justify nerfs?
Dont you have to compare it to the enforcer aleast?
Is harasser op because its faster than a max aswell?
Reduce harasser speed to that of a walking max, and make maxes only usable with 2 people inside? For balance?..

Next we will have VS comparing orion to banshee when people whine about orion.