Losing hope in PS2's potential.

I've been playing this game since beta, and the biggest problems are still here. It's gotten to the point where I enjoy complaining about the game more than playing the game, and I only stay around for the good company of the community. I certainly put more thought into the complaints, if nothing else. Despite this game having some rough times, there has always been a spec of optimism left, telling me that one day, 2, 5, 20 years down the road, this will be a consistently fun game to play.

Two years in, and it's finally hit me that it's never going to happen. Not because the developers are bad, or being negligent, or making poor decisions; they're great people who have done great things, but the damage was done to this game very early on, before anyone would have known just how bad things would become. The game so many people here want PS2 to be will never happen, because it's far beyond the point of no return. The problems people bring up all the time here, lack of meta, redeployside, tank spam, etc, all of these things are part of the game on a fundamental level.

It wouldn't matter if they made all force multipliers cost all of your resources and have a 3 hour cooldown. Large groups will still find a way to bring them in bulk and stomp every fight. Everybody has access to everything, so everything is worthless. Redeployment is necessary because of the way continents are laid out. Intercontinental Lattice will never happen because of the way PS2's continent system is set up. The Resource Revamp is another blind attempt to fit a system into a game that isn't set up to accommodate it.

Everything that's immediately planned to be added to the game is for novelty and monetization. Content for the sake of content. But that's not a bad thing; it's all they can do for the game at this point to keep people interested. As always, there are a lot of plans to improve the game down the road by adding more to the game's systems, but even if they happen, they won't have the impact on gameplay that we hope they will; because the game's systems stand on a faulty foundation. All of these heavily romanticized future systems they've advertised are just increasingly elaborate ways to harm someone else's experience in the game. They won't give you the experience you long for.

I won't cancel my membership or stop playing the game; nothing of the sort. But, the hope that Planetside 2 will ever be "meaningful" is gone. I'm waiting on Planetside 3/Planetside Next/Whatever they chose to call it for that. The time where Planetside 2 is allowed to make the needed fundamental changes is long gone. The more content they add, the deeper the broken foundation of PS2 submerges, and the harder it is to repair it. Even now, it would take years to undo all the errors made in pre-beta.

I don't like the current state of PS2, but it sure as hell beats the alternatives. For now, I'll live with the current meta of log in, shoot some dudes, become jaded and frustrated even if I'm doing well, and log off within the hour. I'm currently in the process of grinding give or take 6000 kills across a series of weapons I despise, and have no hope of obtaining through normal gameplay, just so that I can proudly wear my faction colors. TR has it rough, as usual.

When the time comes for Gemini 2.0 and the bandaids are no longer enough to cover up all the burning wreckage, I'll probably still be here, for whatever reason. Much love to all of you who will be doing the same. We can at least say we tried. This game has a fantastic community. As long as that never changes, there are brighter days ahead for PS2.

The everyone on one map thing will now be overshadowed by No Man's Sky. Which has multiple PLANETS, with no loading screens in between them, on one "map" or section. You can land on each planet and explore the surface and its wildlife. There are 18 quintillion possible planets that are randomly generated while exploring.

That game looks pretty sweet, but scale alone does not create the Planetside experience.

except no mans sky seems like more of a PVE affair mixed with a bit of parallel multi player aspect. impressive, but i'm not sure its entirely comparable.

Whilst any game could always improve, I feel that many gamers have these unrealistic expectations that it is profitable for the developers to try to cater to those who have played the game for years, know it inside out, and thus are veterans at it.

Their business model creates money by people trying the game, sticking with it for a while and then buying things from the store. The veterans already have everything they need, mostly, and aren`t going to buy more station cash. As probably has been said many times, it doesn`t matter how passionate you are for a vision of how you want the perfect massive sci-fi MMOFPS to be, if the game isn`t profitable. If the game doesn`t sell well it`ll just turn into a small niche title which doesn`t have the funding needed for maintenance and upgrades.

The more time it takes, and the more complicated it is to actually get to a massive battle, the less appealing the game is going to be for new players.If we didn`t have "instant action" redeploy etc, an already steep learning curve would be even steeper, and people would be overwhelmed. The divide between the veterans and the new players would be even greater.

I think the only way the way the dynamics of the game itself are going to change, is if PS2 becomes a title you HAVE to pay for in order to play, as in a monthly fee, which now, 2 years down the line, is going to cause a massive outcry. There is quite a big demographic that enjoy hardcore games, as illustrated by the success of DayZ.

Exactly, people need to look via the devs perspective before complaining. Otherwise there complaint is just thin air and a complete waste of time for both parties.

I won't live to see Planetside 3, but I hope it's good. Think of me for a second when you play it :3

But yeah, your post very articulately expresses my opinion. /yell is indeed the only meta.

You ever notice how major movie studios seem to release only 2 kinds of blockbuster films? There are the movies that are made with passion and purpose, where the writers, directors, and actors have a vision and they do everything to put that vision to film. They have a carefully thought out plot that isn't contrived. Sure there are explosions and car chases, but they fit into storyline and move the story forward. Those films are usually great. They stay in the theaters for many months and come to hold a place in our hearts and even our culture.

Then there are the flashy, explosive-intensive crapfests that lack any type of depth or plot whatsoever. Their sole purpose is to attract a lot of viewers with great special effects so the studios can make a fast buck. The script is doesn't flow, but is rather a patchwork of explosions and car chases - all the elements designed to lure in audiences. These movies usually leave the theaters after a month or two and are quickly forgotten.

Videos games are the same way, and Planetside 2 is trending towards the latter type. It has amazing graphics and huge battles. It is visually stunning. You can fly ESFs and drive tanks. You can blow up things with C4 and rockets. But... look deeper and you find only flaws, bugs, lack of depth, and lack of purpose other than grinding and farming. PS2 is what film critics might call a "polished turd". Sure it looks great, but ultimately it's empty. Players may initially be enthusiastic about the experience, but quickly lose interest.

Having said that, I still have hope PS2 can become something great - a game that is remember for not only its flash, but its depth. I wish I could be like the OP of this topic and make my peace with PS2's flaws, but I can't. I still believe it can become something more.

PS2 will never be anything but a polished turd. They can polish it all they want. It will always be a turd. It's hopeless to expect anything from this game anymore. It's the fundamental building blocks of the game that are the source of all of the game's ills. The progression system, the maps. There's just nothing they can do with it anymore. The best thing they can do for this game is drop it and start over with a foundation that works. Buzz was right. Yeah. I went there.

That's a brilliant idea.

Do it.

*There is no sarcasm within this post, just making sure you know.*

I wish they would, but it's just not a feasible call, business wise. As much cash as I would throw at it, it's just not going to happen. Too big a risk.

And people moan that some continents in PS2 are empty with just 4 to choose from...sounds like it could be a major zzz fest

I would suggest the problem starts with the F2P decision, which requires people to make it work in a PVP game such as this. For people, you need the lowest possible barrier to entry, so the game is aimed at an audience where even the OS they are running the game on is out of support and DX9 is about as good as it gets. Then you have the engine, which can't do water properly and thus will never support fluid movement from continent to continent, and importantly means that any water in the game can't be used strategically or as a real obstacle but merely spattered around here and there as eye candy. Of course, the engine seemingly struggles with doors too (either in general or due to the scale of the game) which not only seems a backwards step but invites other problems in as a result. Then you can mix in ignoring years worth of experience of knowing what worked and what didn't in Planetside 1 for a more watered down instant action game style, appealing more to the drop in and drop out crowd rather than the already established niche that Planetside offers over all the other samey games.

This is before we even get into the game design choices themselves, which at times beggar belief and exacerbate the problem.

The only thing still going for it is scale. There is nothing on this scale offering this experience. The conversation in our TS channel is constantly about how much we hate this game right now - and yet still play it.

- The game is free to play.
- It has a very deep upgrade/class system and even the possibility to specialize to a large extent WITHIN the different classes.
- The scale is unprecedented
- The battles are second to none.
- Infantry, vehicles, stationary turrets in bases, air, many vehicles have multiple weapons systems that can be manned at the same time.


From the start, Planetside 2 has always been an excuse to roll out 24/7 ******* ridiculous firefights involving hundreds of players running, rolling, flying, shooting, screaming.

Why? Because Planetside 2 can.

At the core, the game firmly succeeded.

Of course, two years down the road you might get bored but ultimately you're still addicted to the core reasons why Planetside 2 even exists and is still being played by so many players.

Planetside 2 would be a turd if it set out to do something it cannot achieve.

GTA Online is a turd. They advertised sandboxing and freedom, but there are restrictions on what you can buy, you can't have more than two safehouses, farming is out of control, you pile up money and there's nothing to spend it on, they keep releasing cars and you don't have the storage space to even buy them....it's ****.

PS2 set out to do one thing : Lay the groundworks for a neverending war of epic proportions and that's precisely what happened. Everything else is a tweak around the main formula of relentless mayhem, and this formula needs to not change.

Great FPS players might have sustained interest for 6 months, while more casual players will come back year after year because Planetside 2 is so far the only game of this magnitude that lets them be useful as well as being cannon fodder. If you're an average FPS player and you think "I'll get into counterstrike and BF" you will be cannon fodder for weeks on end.

If you're an average player and you get into Planetside2 you're gonna play your engineer for entirely different reasons, but you'll STILL be an important part of the game.

Even if you're a terrible shooter player, you'll spawn a Sunderer and drive amidst fellow zergers and people will hop in your truck and start shooting down planes and whatnot. To a player that can't land a bullet on target in a game like Battlefield where you get headshotted after the slightest mistake, PS2 is pure ******* gold! You need these players more than ever after 2 years.

The game is free, offers massive scope, is varied enough that veterans and noobs alike can find something in it.

Now of course PS2 is a spectacular action movie, that has always been the point.

There's always place for improvements but what veteran forumsiders want is not necessarily what the vast majority of players want, and a game like PS2 needs a lot of players.

My belief is that the current F2P model of Planetside 2 is one of the things that's killing it, and what will be its biggest killer. Now, I know the game still has people online, and I think there will always be that core group who sticks around no matter what (I would be among them, probably wielding a chaingun) but we're losing people, and not just players. A week or so after Waterson and Mattherson merged, I realized something didn't seem right...Now they're pulling this huge PS4 movement and it makes it seem like they're trying to jump ship, or at least save the one they're on. I always see so many newbies who probably play for about a week and then leave without spending any money at all.


Honestly, if the game were a pay to play, something like Guild Wars 2 (pay 60 bucks, jump in and be able to play straight away, spend SC on cosmetics like usual, but get more benefits like the member's 48 cert buildup, etc) I feel we'd be closer to that 'game' we all wanted, with the depth and everything, generally more Planetside 1 like. Instead of forcing the devs to make things that will bring more money in what with all the new helmets every week or the same NS guns but with different paint, being P2P would give them that breathing room to actually work on making the game into something truly amazing. I hope that's their plan on why they're making the PS4 port, so they can get that breathing room. In the end I feel like you just can't make a game like Planetside 2 with all its scale and potential, and tack on the limits of being Free to Play. Make a good game, and it'll pull people in. I do believe Higby and the developers achieved that initial vision, with the never ending war between three empires, but we know they wanted to do more, like what Higby was saying in that Two Year Anniversary interview.

Higby also claims Planetside 2 can last another two years easy, and then some. I hope he's right. I also think he's crazy, but I really hope he's right, for the sake of us all.




As for OP, I don't want to admit defeat just yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if all they did from now on was add a few more new shiny bits and the rest is novelty items for quick cash. That just seems like the reality at the moment.

GW2's business model isn't working out very for them. It is infact one of the games which generates the least revenue for NCsoft's games. I've kept as a subscriber for the majority of my time this game has been live because I really like this game, and I respect the fact they're going into unexplored grounds(unless you count PS1). I do not think it is an exaggeration to say Planetside 2 is the toughest game project anyone can currently work on when it comes to optimization. For example, the background you look at isn't just a nice simply back drop. You can actually go there.

F2P sure has its limitations though, and I think more could be done to make a subscription more appealing. Instead of focusing on exp gain and so on, you could get all attachments for weapons unlocked, a free pick from any item in the cash shop every month(player studio excluded perhaps). These are just plain example, but what I'm aiming for is emulating the sense of a subscription gives you access to the complete game rather than being a booster/passive cert gain thing.

This kind of F2P business model would allow F2P to do what they do, those who rather buy SC can do that, and finally, subscribers feel like they're unlocking most of the game thus not giving them advantages in exp/resource gain(which would make it easier to balance and impliment a good resource system).

The class system has no meaning, the scale isn't even a third of what Planetside 1 had to offer 11 years ago, and the battles are chaotic messes hosted in bases that were built for 24v24, not 240v240. The reason I play Planetside is to experience those amazing moments when I and my small squad of friends are making an impact on a giant world-spanning global conflict, in real time. This experience only existed in Planetside 1. In Planetside 1, you would fight between continents, out of over a dozen different maps. In Planetside 2, you fight on one continent, and when the game says so, you leave and go fight on another. There is no global war, just a TDM on one big map at a time. The rules are set by the game and not by the players.

Unlike many though, I agree with the F2P model, and I think PS2 uses it exceptionally well. But the rest of the game is just boring. I feel like a game from 2012 is more dated than a game from 2003. Something is wrong with that picture.

US, the players. Some want tank battles, some want air battles, some just want fps battles and some want a bit of everything. Its impossible to try and cater for all this. So NERFS are then banded around the forum to suit a players faction a playing style. SOE have tried to cater for all and in the end not pleased anyone ( well some naturally ) For example, tanks are to weak for the tankers but to strong for infantry, how can you balance that opinion??

The Valk. Numbers rose in massive anticipation for a new vehicle, oh boy was we all disappointed !! The numbers fell as quick as an old woman's breasts when her bra is removed.

This is what's wrong with PS2. Who actually thought the Valk when it first came out was any good, quite frankly im shocked they brought it out as they did. The test server comments were ignored then latter added to some extent, but why bring something out so bad? The striker revamp, who again actually thought it would be viable? These typical decisions is what turns players off from PS2 and also stops its moving forward. How can you trust people with this game who made these decisions?

A proper objective. Alerts, some would rather play on there favourite map than play an alert on a map they hate and if their factions wins then they get the benefit? There needs to be more purpose or even fun in this game than just certs.

The new continents, yes many will say they are brilliant, all I would say is, Indar is still the only one you have to que for, was even better when the crown was there.

So, it appears to me, the more they mess with it in the new direction, the worse the game gets. I often feel they are trying to tempt COD players over but that's never going to happen and all they are doing is losing the current players. I think the clear vision and direction has been lost and with PS4 being there focus, the PC version will just able along.

For me, well once I hit BR100, I cant see what else would motivate me to carry on.

OP..unfortunately you really understand the situation. Why are changes so slow ? Why are projects never finished ?
MY conjecture.....there are few developers to do anything to work on this game. There is little SOE interest in doing anything with this game. The game continues to exist and posturing continues to simulate continuing development..

Exactly, that's what happened to me, although I came back for a while to play redeployside on Amerish but then I got bored again pretty quickly.

re: ftp. I've just watched a panel discussion from PSX on FTP which included Matt Higby and the question I would want to ask wasn't asked and it would be this.

FTP incentivises developers to make new items for the shop camo/guns with bling and so on, however I am br100 I have all the camo I want, I have all the gun I want and I don't particularly need or want the devs to make any new ones. Where is your incentive (SOE/MH) to provide updates to the game that would make me want to play beyond this point?

(If this was a subscription game like ps1, I'd be paying every month and be glad to do so because of those 'end game' features such as meta)