Kind of figured out why the PS2 is borked.

Cos' of this odd immediate role reversal when an opposing army attacks a base. Come take a ride with me on my train of thought. Next stop, logic and reason.

Attacker attacks Point A.

Attacker sits on Point A.

Attacker attacks Point B.

Attacker sits on Point B.

Countdown to capture.

Attacker is now defender.

Defender is now attacker.

Because the capture points are outside of the defenders immediate spawn area, they naturally have to travel farther in order to "defend" their points. While the attackers, naturally just have to sit on the point and wait for the defenders. In turn making the attackers the defenders and the defenders the attackers. This role-reversal is causing (partly) stale fights happening cos' attackers are expecting to attack, but they're defending, while defenders are expecting to defend but really they're attacking.

"Then why don't defenders just sit on the point and defend"

Because it's dull and boring to defend against something that may or may not ever come, it's that psychological question the defender asks themselves when they choose to defend a point: "is an enemy gonna come through that door? Are they not ever gonna come through that door, are they here are they over there. How long will I potentially be waiting for before I get to shoot somebody?" Because that question will never be answered immediately it makes the player leave the point because "why wait for something that may never come?" especially when it's not under immediate threat, however with the zerg nature of the game, by the time that threat appears, it may already be too late and the point is gone.. Where as the attacker turned defender can expect that defenders turned attacker will attack to take back the point, cos' if they don't they lose the base. So it's an absolute expectation that "dinner will be served" as it were with the attackers turned defenders, with that capture point changing faction colors basically being the "dinner bell" to the defending faction and all the attacking faction has to do is wait, thus becoming defenders.

This capture mechanic works fine in a small arena like game like BF where the purpose is to just shoot each other and have fun. With the capture mechanic in BF just being a way to easily find conflict and the ticket system giving a rudimentary victory condition. However, you already have a similar capture mechanism in the lattice system, where people know where conflict is and thus can have a easier time finding people to shoot. But to double down and include the mechanic in the bases themselves? It's too much and I feel affects the game negatively because expectations on "who's doing what, and what role are we supposed to be" are being thrown out of whack.

Personally, I think all the capture points should be taken by the opposing faction before the base starts ticking with the final logical capture point being within a defendable position that the defenders can easily get to. Perhaps a system tiered battle capture thing thingy thing..where you have many capture points on the outskirts of the base, spreading out conflict, and as they get captured the less capture points are available until finally you have the final capture in the epicenter of the base itself where everyone is gonna to be concentrated in attacking and defending. Ex: Outskirts (5 captures) Within Base walls (3 captures) Main Base that contains defender spawn (1 capture). Or something.

Thanks.

ps 2 is 'borked' because it's now geared toward attacking zerg method. nobody wants to defend unless it's an alert, hence alerts every 3/4 hrs.

I think it works quite well for single point bases, however, multi-pointers are all total disasters. The real irony of it is that the multi-point bases, which are supposed to hold the largest fights, play out best with smaller pops in my experience.

Comparing 3/4-pointers and 1-pointers is like comparing the map pre and post lattice. What are your thoughts on the prospect of all bases being reverted to a single-point model?

lettuce system......................... the source of my anger

I hate zergs

that's just how the game play, thing is, there is nothing new in the game anymore,no new weapons, no new vehicle, just same thing over and over again. and when i see they put a new LMG call "NS-15M2" in game, this game just dead in my head, and that is why i decide to quit the game with 38days XP boot still enable in my BR83 character...

The lettuce system has been getting talk of a complete overhaul by the devs. Search up Territory 2.0 on Reddit. It was a post made 2 months ago and essentially means we would have 'hex-clusters' connected by lattice. The lattice lines would only connect to major facilities and key bases while leaving everything else in the immediate area of those bases part of the hex system if I understand it correctly.

Funny. That's the exact same purpose PS2 have.

And this is why towers with the A point inside the tower is fun as heck to defend but a ***** to attack if you want to lower the cap time. This is also why experienced players know what bases will have good fights even before spawning at them. You want to fight at bases where you're the defender when you're defending and not bashing your head against an L building filled with MAXes as a defender. This is also why attacking some bases can be okish if you know that you'll be defending a point with a sundy close to it. This game is very linear in that aspect, regardless of what the devs and some tacticool players think.

Indeed.
Because it requires a bit brain to bring double bulldog/furry full blokade full fs sunderer as defender closer to open ground point- deployed or not. Or Maxrush with 3-4 maxes and support engie/medic in-building points.
Or deploy 1 base behind roll out with AP tank killing the attacker spawns or roll with c4 or tank mines to kill the attacker spawns or bring your own defender sunder from 1 base behind to deploy and flank the attacker sunder.

Each base have its tricks. Just get 4-5 people that have idea what they do and have certed a lot of things and you can shift the fights up to 48 people, above it is just zerg.
95% of the fights are shifted by the players that know the baselayout:
http://www.squadside.com/
Enjoy.

We need moar Octagons, Saerro listening posts, etc

It is broken cos 95% of fighting occurs in bases with some farming flavor of vehicles.
Battles around capture point, now new totally broken amount of Xp just for sitting here does not help at all.
Constant grenade spam + RL spam then MAX rush and we can start this siege over and over again.
I swear that the wining side is more than often the more patient one.
I like battles between bases but our glorious redeploy system forbids it.
Also super resistance of GAL does not help cos it is almost certain that it will unload its cargo.

1 point capture bases seems however I think you run into problems with the rest of the base or outpost (surrounding buildings n such) not really being used, with everyone bum-rushing that single capture point.

Personally I just think it should be all capture points need to be captured before the base ticks down or at the very least a complete revision on base capture mechanics cos' it's kind of too easy or better yet too "lame" to take a base or outpost right now. I mean, that third capture point within the base or outpost might as well not be there because why bother when an attacker can sit on the 2 (or however many) capture points on the outskirts of said base and wait.

Perhaps some tiered capture system where players need to capture the outskirts first, then once captured and held for a couple of minutes they get "locked" where the defenders can't take them back once locked, then the next tier of capture points get "unlocked" for capture, then held, then captured. and as you get closer and closer to the epicenter of the base the concentration of the base defenders increase as they gather to defend the final capture point, leading to a crescendo where the defenders have the majority advantage and the attackers have to really push.

So kind of like this:

(Tier 1)Outskirts: A B C D E point can be captured by attackers, due to the amount of capture points surrounding the base and due to the spread out capture points, it spreads out fights, making small fire fights around the base. After capturing all of outskirts a take and hold takes place where attackers need to defend the points for a small amount of time. Once held, and officially captured, all the outskirt bases "lockdown" and are unable to be retaken by defenders, by locking down "outskirts, it unlocks capture points within base walls.

(Tier 2) Within Base walls: A B C can't be captured until attackers capture all of "outskirts" first, once "outskirts" are captured, unlocks the next tier of captures which would be "Within the base walls" same system that was applied to "outskirts" is applied here as well. Capturing all of "Within base walls" locks down capture points unable to be retaken by defenders.

(Tier 3) Within the base itself: A point can't be captured until "Within Base walls" are captured and "locked". Once "Within base walls are captured" locked by attackers can't be retaken by the defenders. thus bringing the battle to a final crescendo where everyone is concentrated around a single point. Battle intensifies, the defenders get maximum advantage at this tier.

So ya, my idea.

Some reason, edit doesn't want to work for me, so my *edit

hex was no better, the only difference was the two main zergs completely ignored each other sitting capping bases while small squads ghost capped in the background. At-least now they are forced to fight now and again so there are battles bigger then 12 v 12 / 24 vs 24. what we need is a hex lattice hybrid, so the large forces can fight and smaller forces can still have a bit more of impact on a major base.

PS2 has many, many shortcomings. Its too vehicle spammed. Has too many OHK things. The respawn system makes bad players that make poor choices too effective over the duration of a fight and good players not effective enough (super fast respawns with zero down sides to being a 'special' lemming). Absolutely zero tactical and strategic meta other than 'put more people than they have there'. The ability to instant ruin good fights with redeploy zerging and redeploy abandoning. Poor base designs such as bio labs that are mind numbing choke point snooze fest. The list goes on and on and on.

Yeah, having to stop five ghost caps at once was so much more fun...

So, what you're proposing is a sort of like a combination of Conquest and Rush? Interesting. How would defenders go about pushing out this way? It seems like the flow would be very attacker-favored.

The original Planetside's lattice and redeploy system was infinitely superior. How often do any us of experienced a pitched battle BETWEEN bases? Almost never. In the original Planetside MOST battles at least started out that way. It also helped that bases were actually designed to be defended so battles were longer and easier to prosecute when outnumbered (even by a lot).

But what's really missing in PS2 is NTU resources with ANT runs, well designed bases, SCU capture runs, and they need to bring back the spheres of influence for bases so random troops can't just hot drop willy-nilly onto/into enemy fortifications.

How about reusing the current lattice locking system? (ie. Capture a point in the next ring (regardless of attacking/defending) to lock your own ring from capture)

Example:
1. Outpost A has 3 rings of defense (including the core area) with 3 points each, and is connected to Outpost B and Outpost C, which layouts are irrelevant.
2. NC captures Outpost B, unlocking the TR-held Outpost A's outer ring for them to attack.
3. Despite TR's efforts, NC managed to capture the outer ring, allowing them to move on to the inner ring.
4. But before that can happen, a TR stalker flipped the outer ring's A point, preventing the NC from capturing the inner ring until he's dealt with.
5. After killing the stalker, NC proceeds to capture the inner ring, simultaneously allowing them to invade the core area and preventing the TR from retaking the outer ring.
6. A TR firefighter platoon redeploys to Outpost A, taking the NC by surprise and recaptured the inner ring, securing the core area and giving them a chance to retake the outer ring and push the NC out from the base.
7. But alas, the NC recovered from the shock and pressed on, eventually pushing the TR back to their spawn rooms and captured the core area.
8. NC has successfully captured Outpost A. As per the current lattice rules, the outer ring remains vulnerable to attacks from the owners of either Outpost B or Outpost C, unless those outposts are being contested.

NTU draining also broke stalemates. If the defenders had to retreat from the courtyard and into the base, it meant they couldn't get an ANT to recharge the NTU silo, and thus the base would eventually fall into the neutral state and end the siege. But sometimes you got that crazy ****** who would load an ant up then hot drop via gal right next to the silo and charge it a bit ;p

Good times.