Ravens: OP or fine?

Sorry, but anyone using ravens against infantry is an idiot. It takes 4 ravens to kill non HA, non nanoweave infantry. (2xbotharms)
Falcons it takes 2 (1xboth arms)
You can also put multiple falcons in the air at range. True you can guide falcons but with the hitchy movement at range it doesn't help a lot. Turret AV is actually better than ravens at both AI and AV at range.

Falcons all the way medium to short for both av and ai. Turret at long unless you already happen to have a MAX out for AA/AI work.

Do have to say though you get 5 raven MAXs working in coordination and its goodbye armor. About the only time i think they are better and thats only at very long ranges on moving targets otherwise 5 falcons maxs work better.

since forumside named it OP, i see more players using Ravens against infantry.. like last OPportunity to get more kills with it

Like C4? ESFL? How bout the HA shield? wasn't that meant for Flak while attacking tanks?

If they nerf Ravens it will be damage at range and possibly RoF.

3/10 times I have to shoot at infantry because they have come at me and the ravens did zero to no damage.
8/10 times I have to shoot 4 rounds to kill them.
As far as infantry at range, it is quite difficult and leaves the MAX user vulnerable.

It definitely "seems" OP to a Magrider who has just been nerfed in the same way the Ravens are OP.
Quite ironic.

Ravens definitely dish out too much damage for their range and extremely high accuracy. I can't confirm it, but their DPS is probably at least comparable to non-lockdown Fractures, assuming all projectiles from both weapons connect. That's unacceptable for some very, very obvious reasons.

Honestly -- If you were to take away the Raven's missile guidance mechanic, give it five more rounds, tack on some projectile drop and recoil, and reduce its damage per projectile so that its DPS is comparable to where it's currently at, you'd basically end up with the Fracture we currently have. Our long-range ESAV fundamentally fails because its drawbacks are counterintuitive to its designated role as a long-range weapon. It's just not possible to justify projectile drop, a dumbfire mechanic, and significant recoil on a weapon whose purpose is to provide long-range AV support. It's tantamount to giving an anti-armor weapon a bunch of splash damage while reducing its direct damage. Or restricting a sniper rifle from being able to utilize long-range optics. It just doesn't make sense.

VKPH for left arms (via Oracle, daily averages from Aug20-Nov21):

• 4.23 Raven
• 3.52 Falcon
• 3.44 Comet
• 3.28 Vortex
• 3.18 Fracture
• 2.62 Pounder

So Ravens are 20.1% better than the second best AV MAX weapon at killing vehicles (or 23% better than anything a non-NC faction can field.) That's well above where I typically draw the line (7% better or worse = imbalance)
Overall KPH (strongly influenced by infantry kills):

• 16.07 Pounder
• 9.63 Comet
• 9.38 Raven
• 8.96 Falcon
• 5.42 Vortex
• 5.14 Fracture

Pounders are 66.9% higher KPH than the next-best weapon at killing infantry.
Don't really have time to comment on whether I feel this is that far off where they should be, but certainly the outliers feel like they deserve to be balanced. Also worth noting is this data is for all players, and while VKPH for TR AV MAX weapons is pretty weak across the board I feel that they're slightly better than the numbers show at higher skill levels.
Mostly I was concerned by the complete lack of objective data being used in the thread up til the point I had read. I mean, it's 2014 isn't it? Shouldn't we all be fixated on objective evidence instead of discussing things based on our random, unreliable feelings and limited perception?

I've been on the receiving end of plenty of "objective evidence" that Ravens are simply too powerful against tanks. When you watch your tank's health pool drop like a brick of lead in water against some random, seemingly perfectly accurate Raven MAX at 200 meters out that decided to target you, even in spite of the fact that you're driving at upwards of 71 KPH and swiveling around various small objects looking for cover, you'll know what it feels like, too. Ravens need a damage nerf. Nothing else to it. If they're going to be substantially more accurate than Fractures at their intended range, they need to suffer in exchange through inferior DPS.

Ravens need lockdown !!

As a mag driver, I don't particularly find them OP. Just means I have to be more aware on what I'm doing.. if I can I'll take them out then go about my business. I will say the noise drives me nuts wish they'd change that.

ALL infantry AV weapons including MAX's have way too much range but I think MAX's should have the greatest potential amongst infantry just not as much range as they have now. I think the big problem is that HA rockets have so much range (and IMO deal too much damage for free) that when you combine a bunch of heavy assaults with lock-on's and MAXes together it creates an impenetrable wall of damage that most vehicle drivers won't or can't navigate through. So should the game stop just because one faction has too much concentrated AV? No I think the range of ALL infantry AV needs a major adjustment so that we don't have the current case of infantry dominating vehicles at range.

My issue is that their range and accuracy, being laser guided, means that a properly positioned Raven MAX can fire down upon its hapless foes without fear of any real retaliation.

If there's a high ground, or a hill, or a great distance, or any terrain that could be used for cover, there's going to be Raven MAXes unloading all day long. It gets especially awful on Indar and at air towers.


The only response I really have for dealing with them as TR (As we lack the Lancer) would be to pull a Mosquito from somewhere else and then Banshee them, but that relies on there being minimal A2A Reavers or Flak around. Other than that, I just kinda have to put up with it. Their TTK is very competitive with other AV and the distance and way they can be used makes retaliating in a tank extremely difficult. There's also nothing that can realistically be done about them as Infantry. Most of the time they're too far away to realistically be engaged on, if it's even possible to reach them.

That's my issue with Ravens. They don't give up anything for being almost impossible to deal with other than having a zerg large enough to just ham fist through the NC. Nobody turtles quite like the NC do with Ravens and Phoenixes. (At least Phoenixes can be shot down and have low sustained DPS.)

(They're especially frustrating when you end up in an open field armor column vs armor column fight and I know that my only realistic weapon to contribute, that's not another tank, are Fractures or the Striker.)

They should change it to like they did the striker but for ground vehicles to make it harder to kill infantry

An easy fix for their AI effectiveness would be to make it to where the rockets cannot be guided until they travel 50m. That or you could cut the damage radius to .5m effectively making them armor piercing shots. You could combine both of these limitations to make it completely fair versus infantry.

Higby has already confirmed that the banshee and the ravens will be balanced in the upcoming months.

As an NC player, I can tell you the balancing factor (whether it's enough or not) is that you have to be exposed for long periods of time in order to maintain sustained fire with your crosshairs on the target. This isn't a big drawback for the Raven MAX on a hill 300m away, but it's a serious concern in lots of other fights. Playing Raven MAX can be pretty exciting when you're trying to hold out against tank shells and rocketpods from all directions just long enough to finish off that sunderer, or dancing around a rock in an attempt to kill an MBT with 2 guns that can 2-shot you.

I can agree that Ravens do a bit too well against infantry, but people may not realize that they're mainly good at killing very distant infantry who aren't aware of you. It's extremely difficult to kill anyone who's trying to avoid your rockets, even at point blank range. A single HA ought to reliably beat Raven MAXes 1v1, if he's decent.

I'd also point out that Vortexes are very close to Ravens in VKPH, so Ravens are not OP in this area--rather, Fractures are underpowered here. Ravens are ahead in KPH, which suggests that, like Pounders, the problem is not that they do too well in their intended role, but that they just kill infantry too well.

I think reducing the splash damage is the right way to go. Removing the rocket guidance before 50m wouldn't actually be a clear nerf, since it's essentially impossible to lead an infantryman making high-g turns (as they always do) within 50m in the first place. Removing the guidance for short range would actually allow a Raven MAX to fire at a target and turn away, so this might actually be a net buff.

Ravens do not need to be nerfed. Instead buff Fractures to be even with the Ravens. DONE.

You posted a description of subjective anecdotal experiences and called it objective evidence.

I choose to believe you did so as a deliberate joke. Haha!

(..the alternative would be that you have no understanding of what objective evidence actually is.)

On multiple occasions I have killed the entire enemy convoy (6-9 vehicles) of prowlers and sundies with one raven max. I will be sorry to see it go, but I understand why.

And what the hell is the falcon good for besides getting you killed? When they nerf the raven they need to rework the falcon

It wasn't the fact he was missing... it's the way he was missing. It was almost like he was suddenly pointing off into space all the sudden. Almost like half-way through the flightime he went... "Ooh... a squirrel!"

It was probably due to clientside rendering issues and the missiles were actually extremely near misses on his screen.... but the video is hilarious nonetheless.


Personally, the suffer the same issue as the Mana Turret. The wire guided aspect makes trying to dodge or hide behind cover extremely hard. They are very effective at ranges where infantry start to get culled, thus are troublesome in fighting back against them. As the MBT weapons have had their effective ranges reduced, so should the AV counters for them.

One thing that is way to OP.... the sound... my god... I've always hated the whistling.... its just grating to the ears.

In terms of MAX AV ravens are by far the best followed by fracs, and then comets and vortex (only in groups).