The Lasher vs faction equivalents

I don't believe the Lasher is in a good place when compared to the Jackhammer or the Chaingun. Now don't get me wrong, it is great to have a utility weapon that provides suppression and I'm sure for that function it is the envy of the other factions. However given that any number of people can watch a doorway / hallway and suppress equally as well with rockets and bullets, I'm not sure the VS actually gain anything from having access to this weapon exclusively.

If we contrast this situation with the other factions, it is a different story altogether. The NC get a feared weapon that is a CQC beast, and the TR get a weapon that mows down infantry. Both weapons are great at killing and compliment the role of the Heavy Assault. The Lasher on the other hand...gets a few kills here and there and is an assist machine. Is it really the job of a heavy assault to hang back and suppress? I'm not so sure.

Now I'm certain that there are players out there who can make the Lasher perform well, but over the entire Vanu player base this weapon performance and potential is subpar and - in my opinion - leave the VS Heavy Assault without a viable ES combat weapon.

Discuss.

Edit: Some stuff.

LMG are made to provide sustain fire and suppress them by this wall of bullets.

Heavy is also the class that is suited for storming inside a room because of the health.

All heavy special weapons fit the role of LMG or heavy.

To be honnest, i'ld like to get a Lasher equivalent since i'm playing TR / NC. The thing is that it is UNIQUE, where Jackhammer is just another (good) shotgun and MCG just another high DPS LMG.

Vanu always wanted the Lasher to be more like the PPA...
SOE delivered and brought the PPA on par with the Lasher

and i still want them to unnerf the lasher

I strictly use it to spam at clusters of enemies at medium to long distance. Its CQC game is bad seeing as it can kill you from self splash damage. Its a weapon to suppress and delay enemy advances. It really is not very good on its own. I feel outgunned if I am by myself with it as it is just not good at 1v1 scenarios. Don't try shooting this thing up hill ever either you wont hit a thing.

And kill. You left that part out.

Is the NS baron still considered the NS jackhammer?

No, only firing paintball bullets to suppress the ennemies vision ...

If needed, yes.

I would say MAX first but sure, I'll run with your train of thought.

Except kill. TR and NC weapons kill once you storm a room. You only kill with the Lasher if the enemy is already hurt, AFK, or otherwise engaged fighting someone else. This is the critical difference - as a VS with a Lasher, you are actively discouraged from doing the normal things a HA should be doing.

It is unique, sure, but unique doesn't give you survivability or necessarily have any synergy with the HA role.

I've always thought they could make the MG even more unique and powerful if it had a longer spinup time. Maybe the first 1000 RoF gun? But instead they added an attachment to decrease the spinup time, making it even more like another LMG, which I thought was weird.

Not so sure about the jackhammer or the lasher, but my experience with the mini chain gun is that it is a really fun weapon to use, but does that mean it is really that good at killing in many situations, maybe not. In my experiance with it, even with the BRRT it coupled with its slow spin up time, pretty bad initial COF (although during sustained fire it doesn't grow like the carv might), and its 1.5x headshot damage, unless you get the jump on someone, your going to loose in a fair fight. But with that in mind, it's not a bad weapon ether. In those fights where you have them streaming through doorways it's great for holding down the trigger thanks to the non expanding bloom and its large clip size.

DISCLAIMER: This is purely anecdotal

I don't know if its a Miller thing or what but I feel like I've run into 1 MCG user, 0 Jackhammer users, and a handful of Lasher users since I came back. I'm not saying the Lasher is better or worse than the other ES HA weapons, just that I don't generally see the others used.

With the attachement you are talking about, the MCG get around 900~ RPM ...

Like i tried to say, it doesn't fit the Heavy role, it fits the suppression that LMG should have been.

its like using Phoenix inside bio-labs - yes you can, but it have no sense. Lasher+Valk=
Example where you can get advantage with Lasher: (at 1m27s)

Take away it's splash damage, up the fire rate, and decrease recoil values. There you go. You have something which is essentially in the middle of the TR and NC and is also what the VS weapons are SUPPOSED to be.

Here's why: I did some research into the lore. Apparently, the VS are supposed to have weapons with slightly bigger bullet sizes, NOT the lack of bullet drop. This makes sense when applied to the Lasher with the changes in mind. The bullet is bigger and can hit more targets.

This is how you could use the lasher.
It´s even better when someone else is using the lasher (team up with another HA + lasher + engy). Your biggest enemy will be the sniper and there is always a filthy little sniper...

I like the lasher, but would like to see the model and mechanic from PS1 inside of this game. I can tell you, this will never happen.

A no from me. This will make the lasher to another boring LMG we already have enough of them.
The bigger Bulletsize will mean nothing without splash damage.

Lasher needs splash damage.
Maby increase only the "direct hit" damage or decrease recoil a little bit, might be OK but there are enough people out there who will cry for nerfs.
Thats why i fear the buff, it can increase the possabilety of a nerf by 100%.

There are not enough player out there who know how to use the Lasher correctly.

Bullet damage sounds good, as any buff in the splash 'ld be a bit OP

That actually sounds like a good idea now that I think about it. But about my bullet size argument:

Since the Lasher is essentially a pulse weapon, it could be argued to re-work it's mechanics so that it's a pulse weapon that shoots through people, so you would not only hit the guy in front, but the guys behind him too with a steady rate of damage decay. It's a unique weapon that people wont cry foul about as long as it does a decent amount of damage to kill the guys in front and damage the guys in the back.

like second takes 80%
third takes 50%
and all after that takes 20%

None of the heavy weapons fill the same role - so its a mistake to directly compare them. Here is my breakdown of them as far as I see it:

- The MCG is essentially just an LMG with very poor accuracy and the inability to headshot (insufficient accuracy plus only 1.5x headshot multiplier makes it pointless to attempt). Its only upside is a very marginal theoretical higher DPS if you are inside of 10 meters where you could actually hit all bullets with its cone of fire. In practice its DPS is lower for an experienced player who will be landing at least some headshots at those ranges. TLDR: There is no reason to actually to use this over a CARV. A CARV has as much ammo, is just as effective if not better at the CQC aspect, and isn't gimped at range. On the upside its fun to use just because its a chaingun that sprays a lot of bullets and goes BRRRRRRRT!!, and its not so bad that you can't have success with it as long as you use it only in CQC, but its just redundant.

- The lasher isn't even a primary replacement. It's a support tool. It will lose in straight-up fights against pretty much any other heavy primary. It is good as a support tool but fails as a primary weapon. I think his would make a lot more sense as a replacement for a rocketlauncher personally, because its main drawback is that you have to give up a proper primary for it - and that's something you rarely want to do unless you KNOW you won't be doing frontline fighting - which I guess explains why usually only shows up in significant numbers in those drawn-out stalemate fights.

- The jackhammer is the only one of the bunch that I can actually say is good with few reservations. It's a shotgun, with all that entails, but has surprising accuracy and effective range without sacrificing any of the CQC power for it. It's still not something you want to use outside of CQC, but you aren't gimped at medium ranges and by vitue of the overshield you can win at those ranges against non-heavies too where another shotgun might fail you. That said, its most OP aspect is basically just that it's a shotgun. You can for the most part replicate the results of using a jackhammer with other shotguns aside for the range advantage. Unlike the two other heavy weapons it is actually just a better version of a class of weapons everyone has access to though - which earns it big points in how useful it is to have in your arsenal.

So to sum up, 2 of these weapons are not really in a good place for different reasons and the third one is - ugh - yet another shotgun, so I can't say I'm really too happy with any of them. You do see a fair amount more of the jackhammers in actual use for good reasons though.

-Stigma

Don't even think about touching my Lasher !

I think it's good that VS have a gun which has its niche : Area denial and suppression weapon.
Many people tend to consider the Lasher in 1V1 scenarios, which is wrong !

The lasher is extremely usefull in a group, even small, or to support the main advance of your troops.
I think it's nice as it is, and don't need to be changed.