My sad experiences with the Lightning w/Skyguard

I like long ranged combat.....So I play engineer to get my certs and
-play my mana turret against fixed targets or armor that stands to fight.....to have my fun

I'm tired seeing how air does what it wants to do,far far to frequently.
-So I said to myself, after asking for advice....I'll get THE vehicle specifically designed to kill aircraft....VANGUARD LIGHTNING.

My experience: I became the hunted,not the hunter.
-aircraft go out of their way when I annoy them with my attack , and if I cannot get into a building.....they disintegrate my tank.
-other tanks go crazy to attack a lightning.They know you cant hurt them
-other high maneuver vehicles turn into mosquitoes chasing hot bare skin, knowing they can deliver ordinance I cannot hope to evade or survive
-ever wonder how many soldiers carry c4----drive a lightning w/Skyguard

So now you know,and I sure many of you did....why you see so few with Skyguard.

Right now another aircraft is the only significant threat to aircraft....and I wish I weren't so.

Do not push forward with a Skyguard. Hang back, in a place of sufficient ally defense, where it's easy to see both ground and air targets. It will feel a little more exposed, but you want to be able to see threats coming easily and the fewer blindspots the better.
Also, max rank Stealth.

Also, this:

I love my Skyguard. Best purchase I ever made.

You sound like you recently certed the Skyguard.

Be happy that they recently implemented the 'air defense bonus'. Actual kills with a Skyguard are rare because even ESF have more than enough health to just afterburner out of there, and you'd clear out the entire sky and typically be rewarded with nothing.

My only real complaint with the Skyguard is that it needs to do more damage to Liberators. They can easily just fly in, completely ignore the damage you're doing, fire off a few shots (or tankbuster you in the face) and leave to go spam fire extinguisher.

What I really want is an MBT version of the Skyguard that is basically a 9K11 Tunguska. It doesn't have flak, but it has dual heavy autocannons. Good aim and direct hits are rewarded by spitting out damage much faster. And they have a secondary weapon - a short-ranged surface-to-air guided missile.

I recommend Heavy Assualt's lock-on rocket, though it's only slightly better than skyguard. Main advantage: resource free, more flexible, and get you actual kills. Ignore the ESF version (aka tomcat), however, since it has been nerfed to crap. (imagine a vehicle mounted weapon that's weaker than infantry ones)

Skyguard is an air-deterrence it does not control the skies for you. However, get 3 or 4 Skyguards and all the sudden ESFs don't like the idea of being in your airspace. Also Screw Liberators

I like my dual-burster MAX way better than my skyguard. Being able to disappear behind cover/in a building/into a sundy after you pissed off every A2G farmer in the area is priceless, to say nothing of hiding in a bush and waiting for said lolpodder to come down within rock-throwing range before opening up.

Also, when you finally do get killed by that random C4/Dalton/rocket spam, medics can rez you. Skyguard is better for mobility I suppose, but it's still way harder to hide a tank than a MAX, plus said MAX can switch to AI and AV weapons (we need vehicle refit pads badly IMO) while once the sky clears and the armor/HA spam rolls in the Skyguard feels like a metal coffin unless you hightail it out of there.

I am normally 200m deep into friendly lines before I pull a Skyguard. Even then, I always keep an eye on my surroundings. Never charge into an infantry heavy zone.

The air defence was ages ago and kills are still pretty common. In any decent sized fights there's always plenty of pilots who take a risk too far.

This is a large problem I have with air. The Tomcats are a direct downgrade to the simple HA lock on launcher while the rocketpods are like firing 3 default RL in rapid succession. Many of AV and AI weapons on aircraft are some of the strongest weapons in the game ( example: Dalton hits harder than a Titan AP, reloads like a Prowler, while having the velocity of the Magriders AP cannon) while being on the fastest and most maneuverable vehicles in the game and some of those are as tough as the tanks in the game. It is a recipe for imbalance.

I would just like a tighter stream of bullets. I find it hard to track the tracers cause you don't get a stream to follow. they go all over the place while you shoot

If you're within 300m of the front lines, you are way too close. The skyguard is accurate out to about 600-900m.

• Don't shoot everything, only shoot what is smoking and half-dead. Shoot the close in stuff first.
• If surrounded by a friendly armor zerg, spread the love among as many ESFs/Libs as possible. Every enemy air unit that you can get to break off an attack, or turn and run, is a win.
• Value your soft-kills. If the air unit is forced to leave the battle to go repair, you've won.
• Watch your RADAR and mini-map carefully, watch your flanks. Stay in the middle of the friendly attack force, but back a bit.
• Put the back of the tank up against a tree / building / large rock to prevent attacks from behind.
• Shoot for 30 seconds, then move to a new spot.
• Be cautious for the first 2-3 minutes after pulling one until you have sized up the terrain and disposition of enemy forces.
• Have a fair bit of patience. Aircraft frequently arrive in waves after a lull because they think the AA threat has abated.

A lot of this also applies to pulling MAX AA, except that they can duck back inside the spawn room shield so are a better option for defensive purposes. Playing peek-a-boo as a dual-burster AA MAX is a better idea when defending, the Lightning is too constrained when inside the base perimeter.

Seems like you made the common mistake of assuming the Skyguard to be the ultimate air counter.

It ain't. At best the skyguard is just a slightly better dual burster max that you can repair and resupply yourself and cover more ground with.

Air counters air better than ground does.

put stealth on your skyguard and you can literally sit right underneath the enemy aircraft and they wont even notice you. though unless you have help, a 2/3 liberator crew will still eat your face mind, unless you see them coming from 500m+ AND managed to get a good salvo and a half off on them in that time.

most of the time you can pull a skyguard from the base they are attacking if you have stealth on it and they wont know until its too late.

I love it when they try to disengage from the area by flying towards you (without knowing thats where you are), that happens frequently.

it also increases the timer on which enemy ground and infantry start coming towards you with blood lust in their eyes, cuz they dont know you are there either.

its also easier to escape because you arent on the minimap.

stealth skyguard is the best skyguard.

Lets just ignore for a moment whether or not it's balanced that the Skyguard doesn't have a very high kill count. And that it is often quite boring to play.

The whole purpose of pulling a skyguard is to keep enemy air from picking on your ground forces.Well,what typically happens when you start shooting an ESF?

They start taking evasive maneuvers within 1-2 seconds of being hit.
They then run off with around 15-30% health missing.

What does this accomplish?

-Puts them into kill range for 2 Lock on infantry rockets.
-Makes them lose just about any fight with one of your ESF's.
-Every moment that they're retreating,finding a safe landing place,repairing,and finally flying back,is more time they're NOT attacking you or your allies.

And you did all this in the span of 5 seconds. So what you do next is immediately stop attacking the fleeing ESF and target another and make them do the same. With this tactic a single skyguard can keep many ESFS at bay.

To surmise this thread:
I refuse to play a vehicle that is balanced against another vehicle so I must cry about it on the forums.
You were:
Not playing correctly as indicted by the "VANGUARD LIGHTENING"
Not having a loadout suited to the skyguard.

Liberators are a three man vehicle. If they play right, YOU WILL DIE! Esf's are paper against my skyguard and AA turrets.
Why your targeted? Because your interfering with air gameplay. They then think "lets stick explosives up his ***" and do so very well most of the time. If you spend hundreds of hours in a vehicle YOU GET REALLY GOOD. Therefore, no matter the balancing, nerfing or buffing, IT WON'T MAKE UP FOR THEIR SKILL AND EXPERIENCE BEATING YOURS! TLR l2p its really a shame how easy the skyguard is.

You may have had something to contribute to this post. INSTEAD
-you insult
-you deride
-you act condescending , arrogant, immature, and are really good at imitating a jerk

Hope you feel better.,

Am I the only one that uses it as a giant point defense cannon against dudes on foot? It's actually amusingly good at mowing down floating LA's with C4.

Anyway, I do Skyguarding alot. I run it with max stealth and ammo pool, and there's two basic ways to do it.

1) Park near an AMS hull down and chase off anyone trying to lolpod or Banshee farm it. It is quite good at this. It can also quite easily drive off Liberators, though will rarely kill them.

2) Park well outside the battle, between wherever it is happening and wherever the nearest base with air-pads are. Do not fire on ESF's or Libs that just spawned; let them go while hiding. Fire on the ESF's and Libs that are badly smoking and trying to come back to land and repair. Kill two or three and then relocate. Repeat this process until the air chavs get enraged and come hunt you down with MBT's. Spend the time pulling another Skyguard giggling at the rage whispers.

Number 2 also works during alerts outside of warpgates. 2-3 Skyguards with an ammo sundy can just completely shut down air support leaving a warpgate.

Use full-stealth and wait until enemy air comes closer, then gank air from 40-50 meters. On that distances skyguard does absurd amount of damage - you can wreck ESF within 3-4 seconds if you can aim.

I would like to see a change to the skyguard flak damage. I think it needs and increase dependent on distance to target.

Example:

0-15 Meters 100% damage increase
15-30 Meters 75% damage increase
30-50 Meters 50% damage increase
50-100 Meters 25% damage increase
100 Meters+ 0% damage increase

Implementing this would stop all the ESF, Lib, and Gal dive bombing us while we drop a full clip into them and we are still on the losing end of the fight. If you are closer than 100 meters to a dedicated AA "tank" you should be punished severely.

This will never happen because the pilots would be up in arms and stringing Higby up.