Why TR is the worst faction

We'll start with the AV game due to the Striker debacle, and because it's probably TR's weakest point.

NC has guided rockets and AV MAX weapons. These allow them to hit targets easily and around cover or while moving more effectively. I would say currently NC is the clear winner here, as Ravens, Falcons, and the Phoenix all provide them with significantly different capabilities. Ravens are easy to hit longer range and/or moving targets with, Phoenix has the maneuverability for lack of a better word and the advantage of not need LoS on a target, and Falcons have the high alpha single shot damage.

VS has no drop and high velocity. These allow them to hit targets at extreme ranges and are strong against moving targets. VS suffers from lack of variety here though - Vortex and Lancer pretty much do the same thing, and...Comets do the same thing with lower velocity.

TR has high mag size/ damage per mag, RoF. This doesn't work well, as it requires us to sit in sight of our target for an extended period of time - and a tank can just one shot you. The only weapon that benefits much from this is Pounders, but that's mainly for AI/anti-MAX use. TR has nothing that's effective against moving or distant targets. Ideally the new Striker should change that, but Fractures need help too.

It's also just getting kind of embarrassing how difficult it seems to for us to get a functional ESRL at this point.

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Now let's look at actual vehicles: Magrider is defined by its mobility, it is the best tank for avoiding fire as well as traversing difficult terrain. Probably all NC and TR know what it's like to have a base surrounded by these with just no angles to escape spawn room.

The Vanguard is defined by its durability, which did get nerfed. It also has the strongest alpha which tends to be another NC trait.

The Prowler is defined by being locked into place and shooting faster. This is useful, granted, but more situational than either of VS and NC's. They are limited to a long range artillery-esque approach in many situations where Vanguards and especially Magriders can roam a bit more - both have strong escape/survival tools.


TR's ground weapons pretty much can't deal with Magriders at all right now. They are nigh hopeless. Everything can easily be strafed except at shorter ranges. Fractures, Pounders, Striker are all a nuisance at best.

Prowlers also pretty much can't deal with VS or especially NC ground AV. They don't have the mobility or durability to survive/escape Raven and Phoenix spam very well, and even Lancers or Comet/Vortex are a bigger problem for TR because TR tanks perform best while not moving.

As for secondaries, TR doesn't have secondaries anymore, really. It seems most people just use the Halberd. Enforcer and PPA seem to get a lot more use, at least. The vulcan and marauder are too range limited and the vulcan is particularly bad because it has low alpha thus running into that issue the striker currently has - having to be in sight of your target for an extended period of time to deal your damage.


I know Prowlers have high KPH. I know they can farm. That doesn't mean TR is fine in the grand scheme of things or that the Prowler is in a good place.

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Onto infantry. We've done the AV part already but let's get down to the basic guns:

- #1. Issue is simply that mag size is not always worth the trade-offs. It's nice to have on some guns but it'd be better if we figured out a more interesting and less pigeon holing trait for TR weapons. VS and NC don't suffer from most of their weapons being toned down when it comes to accuracy and/or TTK for a trait that is more situational like damage per magazine. Plus, slow reloads which sometimes is a bigger downside than bullets per mag is an upside - granted I still give the edge to more bullets but reload speed isn't the only thing we're "trading".

- TR's LMGs suck and HA is probably the most used infantry class. The Orion and Anchor are two fantastic weapons and TR has nothing that really competes - mainly due to poor accuracy. The CARV is still pretty weak even after its slight recoil reduction, the MSW-R is a downgraded Orion with soft point as its only significant advantage which doesn't compare to the usefulness of .75 ADS. Our only accurate weapons are pea shooters or the TMG-50 which is a wannabe EM6 that doesn't quite pull it off anymore.

- The 125 tier doesn't add anything significant to our faction. Lynx still doesn't compete with GD-7F / Serpent TTK, TORQ may be good but it's kind of just a sidegrade to the Cycler. The 200 damage tier NC guns, while they may not be the best weapons, still give them more unique advantages - powerful alpha/headshots, pinpoint accuracy starting CoFs, very low horizontal recoil. VS... well VS's lack of bullet drop and faster reloads aren't a big deal either honestly. It feels like the Orion pretty much is the VS's infantry weapon trait at this point.

- Diversity is also lacking in general. This affects VS too, even more than TR I'd say. NC has some duds too but much better overall variety. This is more QoL than a major balance issue, but it's a big damper on fun to have a bunch of weapons you'll never use and even worse if there's no weapon to fit your particular preferences.

Just some examples of lackluster and/or too similar weapons -

• Bull/Rhino - Semi-accurate pea shooters, one has better overall stats the other just has larger mag size
• T5 AMC/Cougar - Low DPS mid-long range guns with worse accuracy than VS/NC options. Both also suffer from an angled pull, which both NC and VS can avoid with a Pulsar C/Merc for superior ease of use and more reliable subsequent headshots.
• Jaguar/TRAC-5 - Two close-mid carbines, one has all the CQC goodies and the TRAC-5 just has velocity and a bit better recoil but more difficult handling due to the right pull.
• Hailstorm/Armistice - One has good TTK and terrible accuracy, the other weak TTK and terrible accuracy but 10 more bullets than it really needs. I've ranted about TR having the worst SMGs before and I still stand by this.
• TAR/TRV - The TRV just isn't good enough by comparison and feels redundant to me. TAR has almost as good a TTK and better handling plus .75 ADS to make it a clear winner. Overall TR AR's are in a good place though, thanks mainly to the SABR covering that mid-long range role better than any of our carbines or LMGs.

There's a lot of room for diversifying/improving with simple stat tweaks. Bringing some 143 tier guns down to .1875 horizontal recoil to compete a bit better with .175/.175 of 167 tier guns - and/or extending min bullet damage ranges. Bumping some 652-698 RoF guns up to 675 RoF, or 723/769 RoF would help quite a bit as well. There just are too many weapons that sit around being useless and haven't been revisited in a long time in spite of dramatically changed game balance.

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That leaves air. But I have basically no flying experience. I must say though that it seems TR's Mosquito is doing fine overall, from what I can tell. Banshee might be OP even.

If it sucks, then play as a different faction that suites you, cause if it did actually suck, there would be allot more players complaining about it.

Grass is always greener.

I agree with some of your post, but I take issue with this.

The CARV and MSW-R, according to the Oracle site, are used just as effectively (within a few percent) as the Orion/SVA and Anchor/GD. I would like if the MSW-R got 0.75 ADS though.

Praise Malorn, for he has buffed our CARVs.

Not sure what stat you're looking at but both Anchor and SVA-88 are way ahead on KPH over any TR LMGs excluding directive rewards which are obviously gonna have skewed stats.

And Orion is also getting better KPH, and I'd bet if CARV/Orion weren't defaults the Orion would be much higher and the CARV might be middle of the pack.

The Gauss SAW is the worst performer though of course. Still kind of cracks me up they haven't given NC a reasonable default LMG for new players. I do see it as a considerable issue and feel for NC a little bit there though.

I don't put a ton of stock into usage stats due to so many variables, but it still looks like they favor my argument in this case.

Each faction should have 1 0.75 ADS LMG imo.
8/10, not a traditional cry thread. Plenty of valid points and very little hyperbole, if any.
Just be careful about that title. Accurate but you're going to attract the wrong kind of crowd.

Isn't the MSW-R a straight upgrade from the Orion in everything except the 0.75 ADS? In that case, sure it can get 0.75 if it gets nerfed across the board on everything else.

Np. take my als and SPA aswell. Would swap in a hearbeat.

0.75x ads + Planetside netcode = Win.


@OP


Many (if not most) mlgpro420 players/outfits have moved to VS. Fact.

Agreed with everything, except for Armistice. I like that gun, and I feel its place is well-deserved.

I'm not necessarily saying that TR arsenal, as it is, is absolutely terrible, but some options would be nice.
Thank god for the Cougar, but it feels like a downgrade to Merc / Pulsar C in so many ways

Eh, I made a less dramatic title and got no responses, so I got it deleted and tried again. A dramatic title gets the conversation rolling at least.

It could use an accuracy buff I'd say, but the problem isn't specifically the Armistice as much as it is the lacking of versatility between our two SMGs. Both are very limited effective range due to high horizontal recoil and poor bloom per damage. The Hailstorm loses too much DPS to really fill the role of the second gen SMGs very well which is more spray and pray focused but still CQC where the TTK difference matters, while the Armistice doesn't compete with the Cyclone or Eridani past shotgun ranges. TR statistically uses their SMGs less than other factions as well, especially on non-infil classes. Part of that maybe the extra 10 rounds on our carbines, but the SMGs still don't feel right to me.

One or the other could benefit from a higher damage tier, VS has 143 and NC has 167 but both have 125dmg 2nd gens on top of the NS-7 PDW and MKV.

Do I get a cookie?

Ladies and gentlemen this is the average ignorance VS soldier.

Back to topic: OP i play TR(BR81) and i feel TR is actually the best faction in infantry weapons.
This is the most suited faction for me but we lack in some things.
The biggest problem is that our faction trait is not that unique.
Yes we have the highest fire rate of all empires but then all of sudden NC and VS gets a 845 rpm that outclasses our 900+ rpm.
Those are the things that annoys me the most.

Also our SMG and AV weapons sucks compared to the other factions.

I think you exaggerates a bit but i do agree on some points.

Sometimes I like the Cougar, sometimes I dont. Its definitely not a Pulsar C and not a great Merc equivalent either. I put a grip and comp on it and it still feels lacking in the accuracy department. I can reliably waste enemies with the Pulsar C from the opposite side of a biolab while the Cougar isnt good at even half that distance. I can do the same with the ACX-11 and Razor but as I said, the Cougar just cant do those things nearly as reliably.

OP's post is pretty agreeable overall. As a player with a good amount of time on all factions, Im pretty impartial about who gets what. I play whomever is the least populated or doing the worst. I dont want to see any one faction with something extremely easy to use nor do I want to see any one faction have weapons nerfed into complete uselessness. Note that I deleted an old TR charater I played into the BR 30s - so Ive got nearly as much experience as TR as I do VS.

I find the TR arsenal somewhat lacking but not utter garbage. The guns just dont have the punch of the NC weapons or the accuracy of the VS. All you can do is fire moar boolets. They just feel kind of weak when compared to the other factions for how I play - which is typically med-longer range but not sniping. For the most part, the extent of my sniping is a vandal with a 3.4x on it. Once in a great while Ill pick up the stock rifle and pop a couple heads, but its far from a regular occurrence.

I like the MSWR but its definitely no Orion. I do like it better than the Anchor but that doesnt mean its actually better. It feels like the TTK is too long...burst fire gives you the accuracy you need, but when up against an Orion, burst fire just gets you killed. I used to like the TMG-50 enough but lately it just seems lacking too.

Since I main as Vandal Infiltrator if not in a Lightning or gunning something, it doesnt affect me much. There are times when you need a LA or a HA to do the job though, and this is where I feel at a slight handicap.

The dev's should undo the TR gun accuracy nerf they gave us a while back, having a high ROF is only an advantage if you can hit the damn target.

Pretty much. I play all 3 factions aswell (although TR is arguably my "main") and it's not that the equipment is terrible (I love TAR for example) but in many occasions it just feels "meh".

This is true, but hard to balance. Rof + accuracy = Too much win I suppose.

Beside some problems (long range infantry based AV weapons is the best example here) TR is fine performance wise.

However, TR feels like the faction with the least fun factor due to higher amount of redundant or dull weapons compared to NC/VS. TR could really use something unique and special just for the sake of having something unique and special.

Dunno what you are smoking, but infantry weapons kick *** on TR side. I only personally had beef with starter weapons, with the exception of Carv9.

I don't even know what to say about this. It's such a load of hogwash I don't even know where to start. I will agree that the Striker is inferior to both the Phoenix and Lancer. I'll also argue that the TR MAX is the worst of all three.

However, when it comes to vehicles the TR are in a fantastic place. I mean they're really solid right now.

The fact that you can't hit a magrider holds true for both NC and TR, that's not unique to the TR.

It's the infantry weapons where I feel you're just so stupidly off I'm wondering if you've ever actually tried the other empires. Or if you've even tried the TR weapons for that matter. TR has a fantastic selection of weapons. I will agree that the versatility isn't very good, sure. But considering that 80% of all encounters take place within 30ish m where RoF is king, it's not the end of the world that they can't take people out at 100m as efficiently as the NC, for instance.

And you are seriously underestimating those extra 10 bullets in carbines and ARs. I used to main TR and didn't feel that it was much of a bonus. Having now switched over to NC, trying out the GD-7F... Geez. Those 10 extra bullets is the difference between 1 kill and 2. It's the difference between having to reload mid-encounter and killing the enemy and getting away. It's a big boon, it's a 33% increase in mag capacity for an NC weapon. It's really really good.

Essentially, the TR lacks some versatility, the TR max and striker are crap, but overall the TR is in a fantastic place, specially with infantry weapons. And TR weapons aren't nearly as difficult to control or hit with as many seem to think. All of this seems like a case of 'the grass is greener', and I can assure you it's really not.

I would argue that the TR MAX is the best of all three, depending on what your definition of "best" is. In terms of performance, aka cert gain, it's probably at the best spot, compared to the other two.

There is no worst faction. Some things are just better than others on other factions and some worse.