MSW-R

Polaris also has 100 rounds/mag. 100 round LMG's shouldn't have good CoF. He was talking about the MSW-R which has the same ammo as an Orion, same fire rate, same damage profile.

I wonder where you got that (general "Orion is OP" myth, i suppose), but no, far from it. The interesting value is stand+moving CoF. MSW-R has 3.75, Orion has 3.5. ALS will make that 2.25 for MSW-R, while LS can make that 2.345 for Orion.

Use the MSWR with a foregrip pronto. LMGs do have crappy hipfire, but its just enough that it'll let you live in extreme CQCs when you get jumped. SMG infs are extremely deadly opponents, and hipfiring with the LMG has saved me more often than not. You won't be getting assault rifle or smg hipfire quality though, so just focus on the weapon's strengths and get a foregrip.

As I said, BARELY better. The only thing that makes the Orion seem like a god gun is its ADS speed. Any Orion user I've came across didn't know how to act when I could equal them with the NS-15m.

Pretty sure having the best TTK an LMG can get is part of it too. While the NS-15m has the worst TTK of any LMG.

At close-mid range combat the Orion trashes the NS-15m. Sure, good aim and/or experience advantage or the drop or more cover etc. etc. an NS-15m user can certainly win, but all things equal the Orion is simply better at the most common combat ranges for infantry.

You said that MSW-R with ALS was barely better than an Orion with a forward grip, which is false. I suppose you said "forward grip" while you meant "laser sight" then.

As for weapons that thrash NS ones, that's pretty much a given in theory. But in practice, at around 15~20m, the NS-11C/A&NS-15M start being -in my opinion- better than at lot of guns with supposedly much lower TTK. It depends on the headshot proficiency of the NS weapon wielder, though i'll agree that it's a little less true with the LMG (625rpm sucks).
Before the recent scope patch, i was amazed at some improbable victories i could pull off with the IRNV scope on NS weapons, or even some fights that i lost to NS weapons wielders(mostly NS-11A), at closer ranges.

I prefer ALS / LS on MSW-R / Orion simply because I like to play rambo style and rush in.

Having grip on a gun that isnt designed for long range engagments is like putting ice cream on a turd.

Either you add to the guns strength, which is CQC and add (A)LS.

Or you try and make up for a horrible stat which a minor increase.

~my point of view.

I haven't been trashed by an Orion using the NS-15m yet, they simply can't handle shooting at something that moves as fast as them. .75 ads on LMG's shouldn't even exist, mobility is a heavy assaults only weakness. Either that, or give every faction the same number of .75 ads weapons for each category of weapons.

Nope, definitely meant foregrip. They have pretty much the same performance with hipfire whether the Orion has a laser sight or not. They've got similar stats, I still just think they should either both have .75 ads or not at all.

So I checked your sig and...



Your last 4 deaths are to Orion, while it appears you were using an NS-15m.

Maybe just funny coincidence or maybe your definition of "trashed" is very specific.

I don't really understand your point then. Do you mean that whether you put some ALS or not the hipfire is bad, and that makes it a worthless option? 2.25~2.3 on hipfire is not great but it certainly can home in a significant number of bullets in CQC (<5m), that's about what a stock HV-45/TAR/GR-22 (2.25) can achieve, while 3 and above is unusable unless it's truly an "in your face" situation.
So 2.25 (MSW-R ALS) compared to 3.5 (Orion foregrip) is a pretty big gap in my eyes.

As for the ADS, i don't think MSW-R it should get it if it keeps better elements over the Orion (ALS, SPA, significantly better horizontal recoil), but then you'd just have a clone which is not a good thing in my opinion.
I do think it unfair that VS gets 2x0.75ADS LMG over 0 for our opponents, but they shouldn't get it on direct CQC counterparts , and MSW-R should get 60 rounds/clip as TR traits would legitimately require.
Or maybe simply add a new LMG with the 0.75 trait on TR/NC and .5 on VS, since there's 1 currently less LMG model than AR/carbines.

Just simply copying the trait to the opposition is a bad idea, there's already enough non-ES stuff in the game, also there are situations amongst carbines/ARs comparable to the Orion/MSW-R/Anchor one which don't make forumside raise hell over them, for whatever reason.
For instance Terminus to the Carnage is almost an identical argument to MSW-R vs Orion, or amongst .75ADS carbines, the Jaguar carbine is almost everything the Zenith is and more.
Yet there is no Vanu hysteria over either like there is over the Orion. The Orion per se is balanced compared to its CQC counterparts.

In all fairness, he's managing better than a 2 KD vs Orion users with an NS15m, a gun that is pretty bad at CQC. It's mostly one guy that killed him, meaning it could just be a sneaky player who knows how to come up behind him, catching him with a RL out, or any number of reasons.

Just sayin.

On the original topic:

I like the MSWRS but it's still no Orion. It's ok for CqC but not amazing like the Orion is. You're better off ADS and trying to stick around recon darts and motion spotters so you can be ready in ADS when someone rounds a corner. I usually walk in ADS once I'm outside of our comfort zone, clear whatever room I'm approaching, then move again.

ALS can save your butt, and its a noticeable difference in hip fire but there are better choices if you're going to hip fire with it. May as well take an SMG in for that...ALS is more of a 'better to have it and not need it' thing. ADS accuracy is good enough without the grip to be effective in the guns intended range, with a slight difference in accuracy with a fore grip. That difference can also be the deciding factor in a battle depending on what you are up against.

TLDR?

In short, both attachments are viable. It's just depends on how you pkay and what situations you find yourself in more often.

Having used extensively almost all the options available to the TR, I would say you're too excited over a very mediocre(In comparison to pretty much all the others) LMG. The price does not matter when you have better options for free and I wouldn't buy it at all if it cost more than 100, either way.

Unlike the Orion, the MSW has nothing going for it when you directly compare it to other similar weapons, including those of the other 2 Factions. I'm basing this on how they feel to me, I've learned not to rely(Too much) on numbers and theory, so take this as you might.

Good hip fire on an LMG with 50 bullets might sound intriguing at first but considering what I won't be able to do if I use the MSW instead of either the Carv, the Bull or the TMG-50 even, I'd rather just leave it on the shelf. Fun fact, the Bull fired from the hip even with FG, Comp and HVA on, has saved me more than I care to admit in CQC! So if that's your thing, just slap a LASER on that and use SPA. Worth its 1K Certs more than the MSW is worth its 100.

And as a last note, I can't agree that you can reliably fight at medium range with the MSW even if you ADS. At least I can't, especially against other HAs. In fact when I recently used the MSW-R(ADS configuration) again just to verify how I felt towards it, I couldn't reliably fight at all and I quickly went back to the Carv-S to work on its Aurax. Now that I mention that, have you tried that one? It's only OKish but better than the MSW IMHO, for just 150 more Certs.

But as I said, it's all just opinions based mostly on first hand experience. I used to really like the MSW too. Oh well.

It's easy to die to the same person when your at a base outnumbered 4:1, especially when said person is roaming around in a pack. Luck just happened to be on his side, getting in the last shot the first three times, the fourth time the other guy got it. You should have checked my killboard 2 days ago, when I had 11 deaths and 130 kills with the NS-15m.

Still, the MSW-R is a good weapon, its just no Orion, plain and simple. It should get a buff or Orion should get put on its level.

EDIT: Ever since I bought the NS-15m a few days ago, my k/d at the end of every session averages out to around 5. The lowest has been 3.3333, highest 11. It just goes to show that TTK on a weapon isn't the most important factor.