[Suggestion] Rounding out CQC LMGs

I'm just using forumside logic. "Something cost more so it has to be better"

I'm meta.

Anchor....but Archon should totally be a new VS weapon name haha. Or wait, is there a gun named the Archon?

You're trying to use KPU in the exact kind of scenario where it is the most flawed.

The Orion is the starter weapon for the VS. Meaning, there are many times more uniques. Also, every player who tries out HA for the VS, regardless of how good/bad experienced/inexperienced they are, is a potential unique for the Orion. Conversely, the Anchor and MSW-R are specific unlocks. The Anchor in particular is a 1000 cert weapon compared to the MSW-R which is only 100 certs. The people using these two guns, and in particular the Anchor, are the more experienced players.

Basically, the people using the Anchor are the more experienced players and get higher kill/hour, and paired with the fewer number of players using the gun because of the cert barrier its KPU will be massively inflated. Compare this to the Orion which most HAs on the VS use.

In case you don't get what I'm trying to say, here's the average BR for each of these guns:



And here's the playtime for each gun:



TL;DR Stop trying to use KPU, it isn't a valid balance metric and is affected by too many variables to be reliable.

It is Q4 KPU, meaning it takes into account only BR75 and above players that use the Orion and the Anchor. So if a BR1 spends SC to buy the Anchor, he is not taken into account. The BR1 that also joined the game and started using the Orion is also not taken into account. The metrics are perfectly valid, Anchor is simply producing better results than the Orion, as hard as it is for some people to believe.

Just a slip there, there is no Archon in the game yet. But yes, you're probably right that if it was, it would probably go to VS (Protoss), as opposed to NC (Terrans) or TR (Zerg).

Issue with Anchor, it's not a CQB LMG. It's as is SVA-88, which outperforms LA1, alrounder. Sure it will get better stats that way, because you don't need to use many other weapons, nor NC has any other good CQB option.

Jackhammer immediately comes to mind.

After the burst change, I can't stand Jackhammer :/, the only shotgun I like is Piston.

I really do not care for ADS speed, most of the time, it throws me off because I am used to not using .75 speed and plus the red dot sight isn't even aligned with the center of the screen. So I do not rush around corners so much, I make sure they move around me but I have poop internet speed so it screws with all the hit detection is it makes it harder to hit with a 3mb speed connection and i DO know the difference because I worked at a server company and brought my computer to play it on a 40gb speed internet connection, the difference was night and day. But myself and the internet is equally to blame hit detection or skill.

I kind of like the Baron and my new directive Chaos. The pros of the Baron is that you can fire in between reloads. Chaos ... well, it's a typical VS shotgun, so slow *** projectiles reducing it's effective range. At least the spread is better than all other VS shotguns and equal to Baron and the other directive shotguns.

Generally I can't stand shotguns, so limited to close quarters. I'm kind of glad I moved to SMGs now as my next directive target.

I use slugs lately a lot, those are fun.

Not a bad idea, and easy to do, i'll start collecting this and see how it goes. I suspect a relatively small sample size will make it pretty unstable on a day to day basis, but averaged over a month maybe ok.

I also did:
- For cqc pass to shotguns.
- For cqc pass to SMGs.
- For cqc pass to Heavy Weapons. Oh no wait, you are VS, forget it.

Agreed, small sample sizes definitely generate very noisy data and BR100 is probably a bad suggestion. Probably your existing BR75+ is the right bucket to use.

Averaging would work too, you just don't want to lose too much granularity (week-by-week is probably okay, but month-by-month sounds a bit too long.)

So two questions, first the difference to me doesn't look that huge to me, but perhaps it's larger than I realize, to me the bigger outlier is the MSW-R especially when compared to the anchor, to me that just seems off. The Orion seems to overall being holding it's own for the most part.

Second isn't the whole issue that the Orion is stock still throwing things off, regardless of level? I mean for instance I've got a few guys in my outfit who rarely play HA, so they don't have the anchor, the guys pulling Anchors are, for the most part, dedicated to the class, regardless of level, for VS anyone playing HA, whether experienced or not with HA, can and do pull Orions and they all appear to do decently with them.

I should be clear on this though, I was never one to actually think the Orion is actually OP, I think it's a direct competitor to the Anchor, and nothing you or anyone else has shown has convinced me otherwise, and I think both those HA AR guns are in the running for best overall weapon for the HA, and I think the .75 is worth as much SPA overall, though for some individuals SPA would be worth more and for some the .75 would be worth more. The big issue is the Orion is stock while the MSW-R and the Anchor especially are gated. I'm not advocating giving all NC the Anchor stock, but I do think this gives a definite advantage to the VS overall.

Going back to the MSW-R though, it's interesting, both the Anchor and MSW-R are both gated, though Anchor more so, and you can see this on the same site, the Anchor has the lowest playtime, followed by the MSW-R and of course Orion has the highest.

Most people compare the MSW-R and the Orion, but the big difference is the MSW-R has soft point and the Orion has the .75, yet the MSW-R seems to be performing so much worse, despite the fact that it's A) gated, meaning it does require some investment to get, and B) it's overall stats are fairly close to the Orion, with the exception of the SPA and the movement modifier.

EDIT: After looking at the KPH it looks more like I would expect to see Anchor on top (a heavy investment weapon so most likely only being pulled by someone more dedicated to the HA) MSW-R in second, cheap investment, so easier to obtain but still a cost, and the Orion, used by people of all levels and experience.

No harm in collecting both BR100 and BR75+ - it's straight forward to add it in to the tracker chart, or into the previous month average table.