Here lies the fundamental problem with NC small arms mechanics.

A bunch of ********. The diagrams are totally off, as are the statements about bullet velocities and recoil.

Here are some muzzle velocities
Starting ARs:
Cycler: 580
Pulsar: 615
Gauss Rifle: 650

Starting Carbines:
Trac 5: 490
Solstice: 515
Mercenary: 500

Starting LMGs:
CARV: 600
Orion: 570
SAW: 600

Although technically not all weapons are equivalent: the starting LMGs have each a different role they cover, and NC higher-tier damage synergizes well with their mostly vertical recoil since the gun will walk itself to a headshot when starting with a bodyshot.

Of interest is that NC ARs and LMGs have in general the fastest muzzle velocity, while VS Carbines have a slight advantage (since most of them are normalized at 515). Meanwhile TR tends to have somewhat inferior muzzle velocities, except for one or two guns in each category that are either equivalent or excel in that trait.
But the biggest variation is in the Assault Rifle category: in the other two the difference between equivalent guns is so minor that it can be ignored.

And speaking of horizontal recoil, in theory TR have the most, but they also cap their horizontal recoil a lot faster than VS guns making them rattle less when firing on full auto: there's a hidden stat called "horizontal tolerance" that has to be kept into account when talking about horizontal recoil.

NC weapons dont do well against moving targets cuz they all have slower RoF, narrowing the window for missing, they all tend to have pretty bad OTM accuracy, especially the SAW(you will miss the warpgate from inside if you move with it).

I notice when using my EM6, I try to aim for the head, but its slower RoF gets me dead alot, so I aim for the body to land some hits and slowly work myway to the head, sometimes getting some hits, sometimes not and dying. Meanwhile, my TR guy with his CARV, I just spray towards the enemy while ADS and aiming towards the head, even on a strafing guy, I can usually kill em. I notice that strafing targets vs the Em6 kick my *** almost every time, simply cuz the EM6 doesnt fire fast enough. It is noticeable that this issue is less with an Em1. NC6 is dog *** worthless against strafing targets, you miss so much as 1 shot and you die...

NC weapons would benefit from slight buffs to moving accuracy no doubt. Plus, changing headshot mechanics back to where headshots were not the end all be all way to go.....

Must be why I hate VS guns so damn much, including the Orion. Their guns might be less recoil overall, but they jitter and bloom so damn much I cant see how people are strafin and moving and being so accurate with them....not from any kind of distance anyway...

Yeah, VS guns tend to have relatively low sustained vertical recoil, but their generally high horizontal tolerance values (lower is better) compared to the equivalent guns on the other factions (barring a couple of outstanding exceptions) means that when firing full auto they end up being less accurate than TR guns since they are more likely to drift randomly to one side or the other.
They also have a pretty nasty first-shot recoil multiplier that comes into play when burst-firing, but like all forms of vertical recoil it can be overcome once you get used to the gun's kick.

Edit:
as for the Orion specifically, it doesn't help that the faster you strafe, the more your sight is misaligned, and with 0.75 ADS speed you can strafe pretty fast, so if you aren't used to it (or don't know about this issue at all) you might end up correcting your aim based on where the sights are pointed rather than the actual weapon aiming point.
Red Dot/Holo sights in this game have never worked properly.

Problem with the NC weapons is that they generally need more skill to use than TR / VS weapons, that ain't a bad thing for experienced players, but when the new players start to test factions where they wanna play , NC is most likely their last choice!

Lets face it, on starter weapons NC has the short stick almost on every weapon, Mercenary is only decent one of em and when you compared that to Solstice or Trac-5(best carbine in-game if you ask from me), it still gets short stick.

Only thing better in NC starter weapons is Pistol(my personal opinion) and the sniper rifle and that is only cos it is bolt lock / 1 shot kill to the head!

About the recoil in generally, good players can compensate it pretty easy.. problem is the newer and not so good players



Some video i made month ago when i was bored and the hitboxes still worked in this game!

That thing has a worst recoil of all NC weapons, pulls left and right , but still you can manage it if you want

That was quite a good video actually. I know most of the stuff in it, but still. One minor thing would be the text disappering too quick, but as far as I had issues, pause counters it

Thanks and yeah, " a bit" too fast text.. would be better if they lasted few sec more, but well.. what is done is done and like you said, nothing pause wont fix

Here, I'll do some for you. Remember, this is for muzzle velocity.

Assault Rifles, TR:

Min: 550

Max: 620

Median: 580 (550 - 570 - 580 - 580 - 580 - 620 - 620)

Mean: 585.71

Comments: Three guns close to both the Median.

The lowest muzzle velocity is as distant from the mean as the two highest muzzle velocities (35m/s).

The TR always have a lower muzzle velocity when the weapons are put into ordered lists.

Assault Rifles, NC:

Min: 555

Max: 650

Median: 600 (555 - 580 - 600 - 600 - 600 - 650 - 650)

Mean: 605.50

Comments: Three guns close to both the Median.

The lowest muzzle velocity is as distant from the mean as the two highest muzzle velocities (50m/s).

Assault Rifles, VS:

Min: 570

Max: 670

Median: 615 (570 - 600 - 600 - 615 - 615 - 670 - 670)

Mean: 612.14

Comments: Even though it looks like they have the highest min muzzle velocity, it is only because the TR and NC gave up a near-mean weapon for a lower-than-mean weapon. Even if we were to substitute in the TR and NC ranges another weapon with their mean muzzle velocities, however, the VS would still have higher muzzle velocities acorss the range.

If 15m/s can be considered trival, more than half of the VS selection is equivalent to both the mean and the median.

The lowest muzzle velocity is almost as distant from the mean as the two highest muzzle velocities (about 50m/s).

Light Machine Gun, TR:

Min: 580

Max: 670

Median: 607.50 (580 - 600 - 600 - 615 - 640 - 670)

Mean: 612.50

Comments: The range is nothing special in particular.

It should be noted that the TR have generally higher muzzle velocities than the NC when comparing across the range!

Against the VS, the TR have generally equal or lower muzzle velcoities until the 670

Light Machine Gun, NC:

Min: 570

Max: 650

Median: 610 (570 - 600 - 600 - 620 - 630 - 650)

Mean: 611.67

Comments: Two competeing interpretations:

1) half of the weapons have less muzzle velocity than the mean strictly;

2) half of the weapons are within 10m/s of the average muzzle velocity, and only one is much less than average

Light Machine Gun, VS:

Min: 570

Max: 640

Median: 622.50 (570 - 600 - 620 - 625 - 630 - 640)

Mean: 614.17

Comments: As muzzle velocity increases, the rate of increase generally decreases.

I am only doing these two categories. In retrospect, I should have probably done carbines as two classes share that weapon; but, I am not going to continue, not for now. As demonstrated for these groups: the VS have higher muzzle velocities for the Assault Rifles than the NC, while the TR are no-shows; and, the VS and TR compete for the higher and lower muzzle velocities in Light Machine Guns while the NC are just average.

AR, VS: 570 - 600 - 600 - 615 - 615 - 670 - 670
AR, NC: 555 - 580 - 600 - 600 - 600 - 650 - 650
AR, TR: 550 - 570 - 580 - 580 - 580 - 620 - 620

LMG, VS: 570 - 600 - 620 - 625 - 630 - 640
LMG, TR: 580 - 600 - 600 - 615 - 640 - 670
LMG, NC: 570 - 600 - 600 - 620 - 630 - 650

Well it is if your opponent doesn't have to do that extra movement, no matter how trivial that is.

Oh god...another thread where someone uses math to demostrate "X" is OP/UP.

Is everyone on this forum aspergers?

Good thing the NC doesn't have the excessive horizontal recoil the TR and VS have then :3

Interesting.

I stand corrected then! Thank you!

Yes we do, maybe not on the starter weapons but we do have those weapons too like you have weapon that pulls only up

Of course, but in that case there's no problem :3

Yeah there is, our weapons RPM is pretty bad in general and they have bigger recoil multiplier AND bigger cof AND AND AND, u see where i am going!

VS side my personal favorite is Pulsar by far, actually i think it is the best LMG in game atm, easy to use,good RPM, rly good bullet speed,really low recoil.. good from hip, and it is cheap!

It was to my understanding that most shooters mitigate if not eliminate vertical recoil while you're making large horizontal mouse movements. Does PS2 not do this?

I've never experienced what OP is reporting, either here or elsewhere. I'd imagine it does.

recoil in PS2 on everything is very minimal, even on the 200 dmg guns. that isnt the issue here.

bloom and random ADS CoF--especially moving CoF which is arguably the most important--is the culprit here. THAT is the elephant in the corner

The problem is all these VS/TR just try out the NC guns in VR and don't spend hours with them, if they did they'd know just how awful they really are. I've got a TR and a VS up to about rank 20 (just under) and its such a pleasure using their guns after playing my NC. Hitting moving targets with NC guns is a pain, they just aren't smooth which makes you miss a lot. VS guns now THEY are smooth, playing my NC if theres more than 1 person to shoot I normally kill 1 then die, with my VS I normally get 2-3 cos its just so silky smooth aiming that I can easily switch from 1 target to the other having hit almost entirely head shots.

Perhaps eventually I'll get use to NC guns to be as good with them as I am with VS guns.. but as I'm now BR72 and easily out-performing my NC on my almost uncerted VS everytime I doubt it...