VS Spiker. What happened?

The Crossbow is NS

Spiker Pros:

~ Highest DPS pistol in the game.
(Highest VS DPS pistol = Spiker @ 1,602 DPS.
Highest TR DPS pistol = TX1 Repeater @ 1,577 DPS.
Highest NC DPS pistol = LA3 Desperado @ 1,391 DPS.
Highest NS DPS pistol = NS-357 Underboss @ 1,375 DPS.)

~ Best sustained fire accuracy on a burst pistol in the game by over 330%.


Spiker Cons:

~ Charge feature on the best pistol in the game is unnecessarily redundant.
~ Model is still buggy (Hitches when firing and glows extremely bright) <----Will be fixed before release.



I'd kill a baby seal with nothing but a plastic picnic spoon for the Spiker!

If they don't nerf it before release...
I'll buy this and play my VS as a stalker infil non-stop til either it's nerfed, or my entire server ditches all other rail attachments but the flashlight!

And I for one really don't want to see the Spiker nerfed!
I just want our shotgun to be good too.


The AMP is pretty good, but it needs a taste more ammo to compensate for it's being the fastest firing pistol in the game.
24-26 rounds per mag should be fine.
That would make it a nice solid weapon.



The Spiker is ungodly if you're a half decent shot (All you gotta do is hit them, doesn't matter where, just blast em and if it's not a max or a heavy with his shield up, he's paste).



The MagScatter is close to being a good gun.
~It needs one extra round per reload (It's a hyper-extreme CQC-range weapon and it's damage style is somewhere between the NS-44 and Crossbow. Having an ammo capacity between the two is perfect for such a weapon.)

It needs a comparable DPS to the machine pistols like the Spiker, Repeater, and AMP.
Maybe 1,550 DPS (155 RPM, up from the current 120 RPM).

That's at the bottom of the pile for all +1,400 DPS close quarters pistols (And the bottom DPS of the new ES pistols).

No fraking way. Well that puts the cross bow out.

Yup and you can't put a surpressor on the cross bow can you? Its surpressed by default. Although I've just learned that is also incorrect. Anyway stop trying to be clever.

I've tested those new pistols in VR training only, being a VS player on my usual server, and agree with most of what you say. The Spiker felt about right, the Magcutter needs a little more RPM.
The AMP was my favorite though. I understand that its huge RPM is going to chew through those 21 large mags, but i don't think they should increase it much: it should be the main drawback of the weapon compared to an SMG (well that and lesser damage/round ofc). At most i'd add maybe 1 or 2 rounds, if any, to keep it out of what the Eridani or Cyclone have as base (25).

Actually, since i'm still learning the game (i've about 110 hours played), i was more impressed with how better TR sidearms felt overall for me, and how varied both NC&TR sidearms were compared to VS.

No. There is NO situation where it would make sense to use the current charge feature over just firing as fast as you can click. You can even get more shots down range faster than you could charging. In its current state, It has ZERO utility. They need to keep the burst fire and stick with the original idea they had with it charging up a single supershot that did explosive damage.


Instead, Someone had the bright idea to make the charge feature a glorified burst fire. No, this is a horrible idea, It should be a single explosive charge shot. NOTHING ELSE.

It should be.
They need.

I'd say that's not as clear-cut; a single explosive shot doesn't have many more possibilities than the pointless doubelburst; You can't charge it in cloak, and for most players (That are not playing a stalker infiltrator like seemingly 50% of forumites), it won't equal reloading your main weapon. Someone in the squad will surely have a Lasher or a grenade launcher. Or a grenade Belt. Or a rocket Launcher.

The TR sidearm already has a drawback, being that it has the lowest damage tier ever seen on any anti-infantry weapon.
Coupled with a high fire rate, that means bursting is required to make the best of it outside very close ranges.

Adding very little killing potential to that mix is just too many downsides compared to the Repeater (A weapon they get for free, no less).

++++Edit++++
Oh!
Re-reading this, I've realized something about the MagScatter that's been bothering me for a while.

See, the reason they've only given it 4 rounds pre reload is because of the damage range they try to keep each pistol's magazine size down to.

The lowest damage per reload of any pistol so far (NOT counting the three ES pistols) is the NS-357 Underboss with 2,250 damage per reload.

But, of the new ES pistols:
~The AMP is the lowest, at 2,100 per reload.
~The Spiker is midway, at 2,250 per reload.
~The MagScatter is highest at 2,400 per reload.


But everyone who's used them have all attested to the same thing.
The MagScatter feels to be under-performing of the three.

The main issues are:
The DPS of each weapon.
And the high difference between the magscatter's damage per shot compared to the other two.



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For DPS, here's the highest DPS weapons-
(Highest DPS of faction specific pistols, with the Spiker being the highest DPS of any pistol in the game so far.)

Highest VS DPS pistol = Spiker @ 1,602 DPS.
Highest TR DPS pistol = TX1 Repeater @ 1,577 DPS.
Highest NC DPS pistol = LA3 Desperado @ 1,391 DPS.
Highest NS DPS pistol = NS-357 Underboss @ 1,375 DPS.

While the MagScatter is limited to the closest range pistol in the game, it's got TERRIBLE DPS for a CQC weapon.
The MagScatter DPS is at 1,200 even.
They need to up the fire rate from it's current 120 RPM to 155 (Possibly 160) RPM
155 RPM on the magscatter is 1,550 DPS, 160 is 1,600 DPS.
(The magscatter's DPS is very easy to determine from it's rate of fire. Each Round per Minute {RPM} is exactly 10 DPS. So 115 RPM would be 1,550 DPS. )
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For the high damage per shot, here's why it feels off, despite it having more damage per reload.

The damages per reload are meant to make sure there's enough damage per reload to kill just over two people (2,000 damage).
This is so each pistol has the capacity to kill two infantry (not wearing nanoweave armor) and still have some ammo left over.

While the MagScatter -on paper- has enough damage per reload for this, it only has 4 rounds, and has to expend that damage in burst of 600.
So while other weapons can go right up and blast just enough into two targets to kill them, and still take advantage of the fast reload, the magscatter has to pump out all 4 shots to kill two targets.


And then, there's the issue of headshots.
You can greatly reduce the ammo cost to kill an unsuspecting target by sneaking up and delivering headshots.
With the MagScatter, this isn't possible.

Regardless of headshots, it still takes two shots to down a target.



Personally, I think the MagScatter should be able to OHK headshot.
And I wouldn't mind the Spiker being able to kill with a perfect 4x burst charge shot to the head, as that's 4 shots fired one after the other, not all at the same time.
The target could move during the burst, and survive if even one shot misses the head.


Being a shotgun, the MagScatter's range for hitting all pellets on the relatively tiny target of an enemy's head is about 5m or less.
To reliably get an OHK headshot, you'd have to hit your target at about 3m (4m with the smartchoke) or closer.
That's well within shot+knife combo range, and given this weapon's unique qualities, this would be balanced and acceptable.

For a shotgun, this should be a feature.
The MagScatter is so far the only shotgun that cannot do this, despite having the least range of all shotguns to date.

If you land every pellet in a shot from the MagScatter on the head of an infantry point-blank, it should kill.
(Max suits and HA's with their shield on being the only exceptions.)

hey...i was just wondering, the numbers for the dps you got there for the spiker...is that from just doing the 2x burst or charging to a 4x then doing 2x bursts after that?

2x burst.
The charge is pretty useless for now.

All automatic and/or burst weapons can be fired at their maximum fire rates, meaning all you need to find their DPS is the damage per shot and fire rate.

Here's the formula for that:

RPM ÷ 60 = RPS
RPS x DPB = DPS


RPS means Rounds per Second.
DPB means Damage per Bullet (This is usually just refered to as "damage" or "Damage per shot", but the initials to "Damage per shot" is also DPS, so I use DPB instead ).

For example, the Spikre's stats are 125 damage per bullet at 769 RPM.
To find the Spiker's DPS:

769 ÷ 60 = 12.81666666666667

12.81666666666667 x 125 = 1,602.083333333333



Round the DPS to the nearest whole number, and you get 1,602 DPS.

thanks...i was wondering this due to the fact that the charge up mechanic at this point is useless but since you dont include that with the dps calculation i can understand it better...not to dispute that the spiker is going to be great even without the charge, another con to the weapon is that its will be a "release to fire weapon" which will add a delay to all shots...either way, i too think the magscatter needs a little help but i could say in what form...ohk to the head should be allowed for that weapon due solely to the fact that to get that would be near impossible and at a 2 hit kill there is no risk/reward with the weapon

One should keep in mind that to reach their respective dps, you have to click on a weapon in just the right timeframe to avoid oversampling.
As such, the spiker may well have a lower effective dps close in than the repeater, for despite it's lower actual firerate, you have to click more often due to it being only a two-shot burst.
Not disputing it's probably the most powerful factional pistol to day, mind you.

I think the charge up mode should be like the following:

You charge it up, and when you release the trigger it holds the charge and doesn't fire. Current charge time, charges are in 2 levels. (can be charged to level 1 or all the way to 2)

To use (fire) the charges you have to switch back to mode 1, the first 1-2 clicks will use up the charge (depending on how many charge levels you have). When a charge is fired instead of being a 2x burst, it is instead a single round @ 300 damage (2.4x damage of 1 shot) without changing the normal RoF/Recoil but uses 4 ammo per charge fired. Switching weapons however, will remove the charge.


This will give someone the ability to premeditate the charge, so when they are ready to shoot an enemy if they fully charged it, their first 2 shots are high damage with almost no recoil, high RoF and the rest of the magazine is normal burst fire (unless they switch to mode 2 again and charge again).

Note: the 300 damage was just a number I threw off my head, imaginatively I would like it if it could potentially 2 hit kill with 2 charged headshots, pretty fast even if it means decent downsides

well i think that's compensation enough for not having a competitive sidearm ever since.. hm let me see... SINCE THE GAME WAS RELEASED!


seriously give it a rest already. it's not like VS is going to be super-overpowered running around with Spikers only. the Repeater DPS comes close to it and every Terran starts off with that pistol. but nobody ever complained. is it time now?

Max effective killing range in one mag for "Full-auto" use of TR TX1 Repeater; 16m.
Max effective killing range in one mag for "Full-auto" use of VS Spiker; 34m.

This seems a bit too far ranged for the highest DPS of any pistol ever seen.


And ya know what?
I don't think it needs changing, I just think that the shotgun with a max effective killing range (by the same standards) of 9m get a comparable DPS to those of the Repeater, Spiker, or AMP.

For the MagScatter, 155 RPM is perfectly acceptable.
That's 1,550 DPS, and would be the lowest of the new ES pistols (and lower than the Repeater).

For a hyper-extreme CQC pistol (The least ranged pistol created thus far), that's not really out of line.


I'm not asking for the others to be dragged through the mud here, just asking for a little equality when they make CQC pistols.

What the vanu pistol should be:

Precisely!

Higby squirmed when he saw the video.. muttering about possibility of banning you permanently.

OMG The guy who wants to fight with (wrong) stats and DPS ...Sorry for that but all of your post about the Spikers DPS is invalid and moved here from an outdated thread. They have removed the 125 damage modell.

Now It has 167 damage with 369 RPM which means only 1030 DPS.
You can burst 6 bullets with 800 (?) RPM, but before of this you have to wait almost a second.

In fact you can empty the magazine with burst firing in 6 seconds if you are good in timing. There is no any signal when the pistol is charged up...
6 seconds = 18 bullets= 3006 damage. /180RPM...
So the burst fire mode's general DPS is only 500. Which is weird because a single burst deals 1017 damage in ~0.3 sec..

Now your DPS argument is pointless.


Anyway, here is a nice video about the current SOE Spiker.

As I know they fixed that when you spammed the clicking it could start charging up.

And the old spiker was.... at 7:35


I dont know why Soe called that pistol Spiker. If I watch the videos I see two different weapon... They should just rename it, and make an NS Spiker like in PS1.



Its funny, When SOE tries to bring back weapons from PS1,then always the VS sucks ... zoe vs jetpack. spiker, swagrider (it was the fastest MBT in PS1), lashe... I have no problem with lasher and lancer.

You're quoting a month old post.
What I said was accurate at the time I wrote it, but has since changed.

I am sorry to see anyone get shafted on new weapons.
I feel all the ES pistols are lacking as they are now.

The AMP needs 3-5 more shots per mag and about 5-10% less bloom when firing.
The Magscatter needs 1 extra shot per mag and a 155 fire rate.
The Spiker needs to be fixed. Entirely reworked. (I won't bother listing how, as I've heard at least a dozen ideas that are pure gold, but SOE has firmly avoided all of them).