Pilots revulsion towards Coyotes/A2Am

First, unlike what some people may assume from the title, I am very critic to both weapons. Previous A2Am were unacceptable "fire and forget" and severely broke air play. They have been kind of fixed, the always on-sights track requisite discouraged fire and forget play that didn't reward players based on risk. Some may argue they do too much damage, its arguable, but I encounter them on A2A situations casually and they don't seem to break the system.

Coyotes; after the velocity buff they became "usable", some say reload time is an issue (must be increased), some say they do too much damage, but they are nothing like the previous version of A2Ams, nowhere near that, and they also do not break the system.

I am not saying they are perfect and shouldn't receive adjustments, thats up to the devs. What we have to agree is that none of them are as bad as some weapons were in the past.

If any of you saw the achievement system, you will see both Coyotes and A2Am are included, and those are achievement lines for PILOTING.

So, what will the extremely conservative "nosegun-only" pilots do once those come out? It will be a major addition to the game, something none of us will ignore, even less considering the rewards and titles.

In the near future I think we will see even more resentment towards those weapons, because their use will increase because of the achievements, but now the elitist nosegun-only "respect" pilot will face a dilemma; take part into the game, or live in their own closed meta-game world that excludes everyone else.

I was prompted to make this after I was actively denied of a fight because I had coyotes (and a BR 8 wingmate), and the pilot on the other side was pretty much top-notch (among community of the bests in the server). I am not against bailing out, I just felt denied of a good fight because the moment the guy saw I had coyotes he stopped firing, bailed (aircraft was not even on fire). He didn't even try.

I then was called "gay", which is not an insult, really, but in that sense this showed his disapproval.
Upon showing MY disapproval for his action, I was told I was not worthy of respect. Really? Is this the kind of healthy community we want?

I expected more from an experienced player that is known to very much kick-*** in A2A.

If he wants to come to this thread and discuss, I don't mind. I don't mind if he stays anonymous too, its up to him. I wanted to bring up the topic.

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TL;DR

A2Am and Coyotes cause a lot of crying but the achievement system will include them actively making their use necessary to progress thought the system, so I'm asking myself if the crying will escalate or pilots will for once accept that there are other ways of taking part into the A2A game. Come on guys, its funnier that way.

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I never said A2Ams and Coyotes are perfect, and I am in favor of Coyotes receiving a reload nerf and A2Am a very slight damage or velocity nerf (although that is very unlikely, and coyotes are more likely to receive another reload nerf)

The pilots that are still nosegun only have failed to adapt to a faster paced game. Their only out is to insult people that have evolved with the game. If your reality lies in seeking approval from a handful of pilots I'm sorry for you. Play the game the way it makes you happy. That's all that matters.

Guess I'm a different mentality. If I fired some of my Coyotes at an ESF and he immediately bailed out of his aircraft after a couple hits, mission accomplished! On to the next target.

Honourable pilot meta only exists on test server
everywhere else they have to play Planetside those poor tortured souls

Good thing the system won't actually matter. The only thing you'll actually get for finishing directives is bragging rights, auraxium weapon variants aside.

The only reason I only use nosegun is because I find that a hell a lot more fun than using lockons. If the achievment system turns out to be fun to do I might pick up lockons. I doubt it will make them fun to use though so I'll probably wont care for this new system at all (kinda like implants, never used em once).

I wouldn't call using lockons and coyotes evolving with the game, more like devolving your flying skill, and the loadouts compliment eachother in teamfights, you want both coyotes, lockons and fuel tank loadouts. But your last point is very true, just play the game how you enjoy it and dont force your playstyle onto others and everyone will be happy

Pompous elitism aside, the issue of balance should still be addressed. Looking at Coyotes and nosegun-only options for a moment, it doesn't seem awfully sensible for two air supremacy focused loadouts to be so separate, in terms of how much effort it takes to use them against ESFs. Some might argue that having a purely anti-air secondary makes the loadout more specialised and thus deserving of more practicality, but using afterburner pods doesn't exactly make you much more of a threat to ground targets anyway. When the two options meet in combat, you have fewer realistic options whilst running ABs instead of Coyotes; the ones you DO have to choose from aren't exactly that simple to put into effect. Coyotes, on the other hand, have enormous flexibility in combat.

Don't get me wrong, here. I've used them plenty, gotten my fair share of ragetells and had a great time in the process! I'm reasonably competent in the air with a "traditional" loadout, so the option of Coyotes only seemed to augment that. I enjoyed pushing that setup to it's limits and finding out what it was capable of doing in it's current state...and learning a thing or two about countering it in the process...but with all things said and done, I wasn't outperforming people because of the virtue of being familiar with my gear and being well practiced with it, but because it was just so damn easy to use, in most cases.

I LIKE the addition of Coyotes to the game. Frankly, the sour attitude of those considered Air Pros is hilarious. The idea that their long-term investment into a very particular niche within this game should somehow give them grounds to try and prevent it's development is shameful. They want their old ways unsullied by those less deserving than them. None of that should at ALL be the topic of discussion, though. Let people shout all they please, lets see past all of the inflamed egos and attend to the real issue here: whatever skills and experience pilots have built up in an aspect of the game have been devalued by far more forgiving and effective alternatives. In a way, many of us pilots are lucky that the elite air crowd has been so staunch in it's resistance to the use of Coyotes. The best pilots would be utter killing machines. Relatively inexperienced players wouldn't ever make it into the air!

Coyotes belong in this game, but they need to be more specific to a certain type of combat, rather than being so generally useful. My personal hope is that they get changed to focus on the very close quarters element of dogfighting and be less effective at distance. That way, afterburners can be used more reliably to create space and avoid them. It then comes down to whether that distance can be maintained or not. These are just my ideas, of course. Criticise if you please, but provide your own suggestions, too.

Just a few words...

This is not WW1 nor WW2..get over it.

I intend to do the whole achievement system without touching them. It'll just be faster to aurax
Stock nosegun
Banshee
Rocketpods
Hornets
And finish it off with aerial superiority ribbons.

To get lumifibre, the ESF directive tree requires either 4 auraxiums and a whole bunch of dogfighting ribbons, or 5 auraxiums. This makes A2AM incredibly rage-infpducing to use, as enemy pilots will bail to deny you the kill all the time, and you can't finish them off with your nosegun. Coyotes are better about it, but you'll still se a whole lot of rage-bailers. I myself will jump every single time against A2AM users, even when using engineers, kust to make sure the kill itself doesn't go towards the auraxium of the tomcats.

Actually, it kind of is. ESFs go at about the speed of biplanes, so unlike real fighters they can't succesfully evade A2AM by just going faster.

Auraxing stuff doesn't matter either. What matters in this game? I guess its having fun.

I have fun achieving stuff, and taking part into nice fights in the process. It totally sounds like me, and sounds like something most A2A obsessed pilots would do.

This game is MORE than k/d and SPM.

Do you REALLY think pompous elitist pilots will not want to have the bragging rights and the exclusive achievement system rewards? I really think they will. And they will be forced to use and accept A2Ams in the process, because they are necessary. Or they can stay in their reclusive meta-game world.

Devs not making the ESF achievement system "nosegun only" sends us a message: Diversity!

Embrace it.

Balancing aside, I am all for a diverse game. I do enjoy "classic" nosegun fights too! But I'm figuring out how to expand the way I play the more I distance myself from too much conservativeness.

This is totally valid. Different pilots / loadouts complement each other. One will always be better in some area the other isn't so good at. So each pilot, specially those that go lone-wolf, should carefully pick the right loadout for the situation and for their playstyle.

And yes, we should not force our playstyle onto anyone. And THAT also goes to players who think the only respectful players are those who go AB+Nosegun only, EVER. Being shunned and frowned upon because of that only exposes an elitist community that does more harm than good to the game. Being critic is one thing, summarily promoting a group's* exclusion is another.

* Those who chose to pick different loadouts despite all the negativity around them among the pilot community

If it only requires 5 auraxs, then I don't have to use anything I don't want

4 nosegun auraxs and rocket pod aurax, I'm good to go

unless there's something else I'm missing

From the weapons mastery section, there will surely be achievements related to coyotes/a2am (tomcats will be a pain to get), and those highlighted.

From this preview alone, we see there will be achievements directly related to coyotes/a2am

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edit: link

https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/july-directives.181323/

20 ESF kills is literally nothing

that's trialling them

thats why I highlighted the medals and weapon specific sections we don't know what will be up still.

regardless, I hope they have GET X KILLS WITH (GUN) or GET Y KILLS WITH (AA secondary)

Running a reaver without burners is sacrilege

Now I'm wondering what the directive lumifibers/etc look like...

i say this everytime this topic comes up.
pilots hate being engaged by lockons, because using them is just lazy and wholly unfun.
even when you beat an a2am esf, you don't have any feeling of enjoyment from the fight, it was just boring.
skill missiles and proyotes hold pilots back, plain and simple. if you are good enough to kill people with the no skill weapons, it means you have the potential to actually become a good pilot, but no one is going to try because getting good is "hard" which is the biggest cop out excuse. and because they wont try they keep using the crutch

how would the top level of infantry FPS'ers feel if they implemented a CODBO2 style "hunter killer" drone, that anyone can throw and will automatically lock on to you from behind cover, fly directly backwards, and kill you without the person ever trying.
how would they like a gun that you point in the general direction of the enemy and it always gets headshots.
i can tell you how they'd feel, annoyed, because it was dumbing down the game.
i dont care that sidewinders have existed for decades, that there are now drones that automatically find targets and can eliminate them
because real life war =/= game
a game is for everyone involved to have fun, hence why balance and decisions like making bullets fly at walking pace, tanks spitballing, jets that cant sonic boom are a thing, they culminate in an enviroment where you can have fun
war is about taking any possible advantage you can get.

the worst part is that people cannot seem to understand that beeep beeep beep *click* is no where near as engaging as a complex and intricate dogfight. and what keeps players interested and invested? being immersed and engaged.

so people get bored and leave. great, the air game on many servers is like a community. and when these weapons are used they are often used by the more toxic who cannot see that they are damaging the game. people with too little empathy to realise that their use is actively hurting that air community. because if everytime i die is to a a2am gank squad, well i either dont fly or i might just decide to use a2am.. now everyone is locking on, so fun.
and when everyone is eventually forced to use proyotes, the people who lose are those that are new.

and they promote farming of infantry, previously if you pulled a banshee mossie /ppa scythe you were at a disadvantage vs air as in hard countered. now you can farm a base, switch to proyotes, and still be competitive in the air. the biggest complaint was that esf's were to versatile, so now they are MORE versatile...

they fulfill no role that needed filling, are a negative impact on the game and should be nerfed into the ground harder than the harrasser and zoe combined.

The Reaver lumifiber is actually pretty baller. It's also the only one for the NC that looks "done" but eh.

In their current state, yes, they diminish returns for those that have put more time and effort into learning how to fly and fight effectively. Personally, I don't really know what to do about A2AMs, but Coyotes are far from a teardown. They are too effective at all ranges. Cut down their effective range and boom, you have a devastating CQC addition to your aerial arsenal. I never saw a problem with their ability to lock on in spite of having no visual of the target, so long as the distance requirement was met. Closing that distance against experienced pilots has always been a challenge, if you happen to be using CQC noseguns. This change would make it dangerous for a pilot to forget about maintaining distance and that in itself is interesting and engaging. Even NOW, I'm actually enjoying fights against Coyotes, getting that timing just perfect with afterburners and wasting clip after clip of their precious air-crutch. Yes, right now, it's TOO challenging to do it consistently, especially against those that can handle themselves in the air without them, but still, it is something that can be focused into a readily available niche, rather than something that ought to be ditched.

Tl;dr - Enough anger. Enough nerfcalls. That is FAR more harmful than the impact of any specific weapon on the game. Let's talk about this productively. Coyotes do too much. Focus them INTO a niche. Done.