[Suggestion] AngryJoe/ Cryaotic on Twitch and Friendly Fire

First off what I said has nothing to do with a tank spamming its weapons at the enemy, in fact that is expected. What I was saying is that turning FF off turns the game into even more of a lazy spam fest, since now you could spam your heavy weapons at friendlys fighting in CQC with enemys with little recourse.

yes one nade, but infinite rockets and UBGl rounds (also there is this thing thing called a grenade bandolier that lets you carry far more then one nade) again turning off friendly fire for anything explosive is just asking for trouble and will dumb down CQC combat even more then it has been already.

Do you even play Planetside 2?

1. Rockets have a blast radios so bloody small and weak no one uses them for their AOE damage or to spam at rooms. No player thinks twice before unloading a rocket at s enemy even with a friendly stood next to him and FF would not change that one way or the other.

2. UBGL are also weak and slow firing to the point NO ONE uses them at all. They are crap.

3. No one uses grenade bands because nades are weak, with a small blast radius, expose you for FAR too long and are completely inaccurate. If the enemys engaged with a friendly its 10x faster to help them by using a firearm, not a nade. Your better off with flak/nanite armour. Turning FF off would not increase the use of nades at all.

Friendlyfire is absolutely required in this game because of the amount of AOE spam available. Without Friendlyfire we would just grande spam and rocket spam everything because you can only have a positive or neutral outcome. Friendlyfire temperament this.

What is needed is a better system to punish griefers, not the removal of friendly fire.

Dafuq are you smoking? Changing FF settings wouldn't change how hit detection works at all, and I assure you if I drop an HE shell in a group of allies it does FULL damage.

It would also do absolutely nothing to performance, outside of the drastic increase in HE flying around possibly kicking your frame rate in the gut. Do you even know how videogames work?

This is like... Free Energy levels of ignorance. I hope I don't also have to explain how perpetual motion machines don't work because that would be going off topic.

Having FF on is absolutely critical to this game's balance. If you're not smart enough to figure out which color dude you need to be shooting, you might not be smart enough for this game. Or FPS games in general.

The only time turning FF off is a good idea, is when you're a PvE game (which if you haven't noticed PS2 has ZERO PvE) that relies on spamming huge AoE weapons to let just 4 players fight hundreds of NPC enemies at the same time.

Those games turn FF off because you need to be able to surround yourself with explosions to keep the tide of NPCs back, and the NPCs don't mind getting farmed. Since their team is just 4 people, 1 troll could easily cause a TPK... so they turn FF off. These games also don't have any PvP at all or really horrible PvP, because those kinds of mechanics don't work well in PvP games.

In Planetside 2 though, you're fighting real players that don't want to get relentlessly HE farmed. And your team is over 500 people, so 1 troll is a joke. So we turn FF on, and when you get TK'd just shrug it off and respawn because the game wouldn't work without it.

The problem with Cryaotic was his own followers. They felt the need to cluster all around him making it impossible to NOT cause team damage. Every single step of the way, they tried desperately to stay near him. This is not common for 99% of new players out there.

Between this and him seemingly doing absolutely no prior planning or studying beforehand, not even one newbie video, I'm not surprised. He even ignored weapon text and was more oblivious than the average newbie I've met. SOE needs to add more systems to inform newbies, including how to interpret the map, but Cryaotic sort of ignored the little bits that were there already.

I really enjoy AJ's game reviews, but i do not enjoy watching AJ playing PS2 and gets TK'd every 5 minutes just so some kid get be seen on stream. Also, why would he just make a BR1 and not just play his main TR character? he would do a lot better than what was on stream.

EDIT: Nvm, it seems like 1 minute, im still watching the highlight stream from yesterday.

Yes I do play the game, you just dont seem to understand how removing FF will change everything, even with the "bloody small" blast radius of things like UBGL and rockets. Right now most people do not willingly fire these things into CQC while friendlys are also in the line of fire, not just because of the splash, but because they might OHK a friendly. Remove FF and now friendlys become convenient places to have a rocket/UBGL explode and still do some damage to the enemy when you miss. people will start taking far more of these shots at range with explosive weapons, because it wont mater if they are off by a half meter and strike a friendly in the face.

Also you should really try using the grenades in this game, some of them are quite good and make me run the grenade band to have more available. some notable nades that are very usefull and can warrant a band would be: concs, AVs, revives, emp.

right now things like frag are only good if you can aim (sadly the physics will mess you up most of the time if you try to bounce them) but even 2-3 frags quickly spammed by one player into a room will net multi-kills, but its something that will also get you weapon locked if you try to do that when the room has a CQC fight going on.

if you honestly think removing FF is good for the overall game, then i dont think we can find common ground. Its my opinion that removing FF will just turn PS2 into an even more dumbed down game, for players that dont want to think about what they are doing.

FF is fine as it is ...

Needs to be harsher punishments for those that repeatably TK on purpose though .. HWID ban should do, so swapping to ya " TK account " won't save ya

Yeah I second this. FF should stay on. Imagine how mindless the game would become if it is off.

PS: I think FF encourages common sense. People have to think before running into bullets or crossing the road.

Honestly, those who were tking on the stream need to be banned permenatly. They were clearly doing that **** on purpose.

FF helps limit the already intense amount of spam. With no FF, explosions no longer need to be carefully used, and holding down your trigger through a teammate to hit someone else, will become the norm.

I never, ever, want to see this happen.

Honestly, there isn't much point unless they made it publically know. Otherwise it isnt going to do anything to stem stream sniping trolls.

dasichri / Nepau / Undeadfred - I'm curious by your response. Do you think my idea for a middle ground isn't an effective counter to spamming?

Or have I completely missed something here?

Adding a rule like that when it comes to explosives wouldn't work well either.

If I so happen to be next to an enemy tank and someone else fires a rocket at it and I am caught in the blast, I'm fine with that as Id rather the tank be dead or hurting and at least retreating for a little while, then have that person NOT fire, that tank possibly kills him or someone else, or multiple people, for fear of having his weapon locked for 10 seconds.

Bottom line, I'd rather someone use that explosive to kill the enemy rather than be concerned with if he hits/kills me and gets his weapon locked for 10 seconds, from there, you just have to trust that people will have weapons discipline.

It's far better to put harsher penalties for teamkilling such as loss of xp, certs, increased respawn timer, loss of resources, etc... than anything else.

Also a possible adjustment to friendly fire incidents could be the first explosive attack someone makes only does 50-75% damage or something like that to any friendlies caught in it (those numbers are just thrown out there for the sake of suggestion) with a timer afterwards where if the person does it again friendlies receive full damage, would have to be balanced so people dont just go ahead and throw 1 grenade into a room cause he knows it wont kill most of them... or something like that.

And when it comes to bullets, first 2 bullets do 50% less damage or something, and then after full damage with a cooldown timer.

From there, make weapons lock happen sooner than it does now, and for longer AND make it account wide and you have enough penalties to make people not want to risk friendly fire, and punishes those that do it to **** with people.



Thats probably about as best as your going to get it while keeping FF on, and punishing those that want to do it to **** with people.

Balancing the issue of friendly fire either way is a hard thing to tackle, I know because I'd rage so hard at what some people do. THeres been plenty of times where I am on my TR and blasting away at the enemy with my minigun to supress them, only to have some idiot go right in front of my minigun to see what I am shooting at...

Same thing with my lasher, Ill be sitting there firing a stream at the enemy to keep them supressed and people just seem to be attracted to them glowly balls like insects and proceed to see what I am doing... and promptly get shot by my lasher, and that weapon is far harder to avoid friendly fire with than the minigun.

I must be doing an alright job controlling my fire and watching out for idiots that like to go in front of me during those times, cause I have yet to get weapons locked, even once, in this game.

No because it's far to punishing towards honest mistakes, and the best rules are ones that are apparent and easy to explain.

What I think could potentially be a good compromise is reduced damage to friendlies.
Friendlies take x% of damage (say 75% rather than 100%). This requires players to show the same amount of caution, but now we have a barrier that helps reduce the chance of ruining player experiences.

Ok, the guy was complaining that he always had weapon lock... why?

I've only had weapon lock 3 times, and they were all within a couple minutes of each other. The only reason this happened is because I chased down a seriously ******** Lightning driver and killed him, and someone else decided to help him out.

I have never in my entire time of playing had weapon lock accidentally. If you are getting accidental weapon lock, you are incompetent - it's as simple as that.

As for friendly fire, it has its benefits and drawbacks. This intentional team killing is just... pretty bad though.

Also, the Duvana guy that was team killing Joe needs to be banned. Make an example of him. He is on video for intentional griefing, now get rid of him.

FF off would be the dumbest thing since the current lattice system, Esamir's redesign and Hossin in general.

From the first vid, accident happen. More so in high pressure situations. With 30s left on the capture timer they should have been rushing point, not the side you can't get at it from. On top of that he didn't wait for any of the near by medics to try and revive his max. On top of THAT his squad mate is says "oh crap I shot a team mate my weapons are locked." Seems like he has a TKing problem.

Second vid: Learn to fly in VR. An unskilled pilot pulled a lib in a very crowded area. He was punished for blowing up the plane that was hitting his Lib. That is a TK.

3rd vid: Should have been reported but I'd be curious to know what lead up to it. if it was just because they were on and streaming, then the person harassing should be reported. Looking up AngryJoeAJSA that he was playing under he has 20% TK in his last 25 kills. 13.19 times TKd in is last 91 Deaths. 4 kills by Duvana. Duvana has 6.27% TKs in their last 893 kills (18 suicides) and has been tk'd 10.98% of the time in the last 510 deaths. A quick glace shows they do seem to go on TK sprees against people.Just to be clear: 20% of AngryJoe's 25 kills are of the same faction.

Stop making it sound like if you shoot someone you'll get weapons locked. It actually takes quite a bit to get locked. Since alpha I've been weapons locked exactly twice and both were messing around with outfit mates and I knew it was coming.

Weapons lock happens for a reason. That reason is you're doing too much damage to friendlies. Stop doing that. It's relatively easy. You get PLENTY of warning before you're locked.

Any solution to reducing or turning off friendly fire creates a worse harassment situation anyway. Imagine someone being able to follow you around shooting you constantly with NO repercussions other than waiting for your report on them to filter through and hoping they act on it.

The impression it leaves on a new player? Dang, I better stop TKing and learn friendly fire. Maybe the guys running the video could learn that.

SgtGoalgoalgoal: http://planetside.tk/#sgtgoalgoalgoal 21.05% TKs of 19 kills, 3 suicides
CplBarleyFlour: http://planetside.tk/#cplbarleyflour 31.43% TKs of 35 kills
Cikron: http://planetside.tk/#Cikron 42.42% TKs of 33 kills, 4 suicides
AngryJoeAJSA: http://planetside.tk/#AngryJoeAJSA 20% TKs of 25 kills.

Yeah.. OTHER people are the problem.

I just TK'd your post.

SOE could change FF so that you can only lose up to 80-90% of health from a friendly. You can't be killed but you will still have to go get heals before returning to battle.

Or, they can turn FF off but make the FF lock more strict so there is still a heavy penalty for FF without as much griefing.

Personally, I don't care about FF. Sure it is annoying but it is easy to get out of annoying situations in PS so....

• FF bugs should get fixed. (But they're fairly insignificant overall, and even with them he wouldn't be locked unless he did some legit FF.)
• PS2 would devolve into AOE spam if FF was off, so that's a non-option.

I actually watched a good deal of AngryJoe's stream posted on this thread

I believe it shows a lot of the problems PS2 currently has, especially regarding to new players and the instantaneous multiple deaths they get. It'd be great is anyone at SOE watched that video or, even better, get down and actually play the game starting with no certs.

to stay on topic. FF should stay on, there is no question about that. SOE should pay a lot more attention to intentioned TKs, that's all. Right now they just don't care, as long as the team killers pay their fees, I guess everything is ok with SOE

Are you saying that HE spam does NOT play a large role in the fights now a days? The simple fact that most people will gladly kill you, and the guy next to you, to get the kill on one enemy is not only a staple of this game, it's in the numbers. Look up Higby's post about what faction had the most team killing and why. It's brutally obvious that people fire AoE damaging weapons reguardless of who is there, where it lands. It's part of the "not my problem" and "you where the idiot who was standing there" mentality of FPS games. Your not changing that mentality. If you could there would be millions of happy parents out there. What you can do is change the mechanics so that the other players do not suffer from that mentality.

To assume there are not griefers in large quanititys in an FPS game is the height of ignorance. That's like saying there are no protesters at abortion clinics. You may wish it were true, but it isn't. Turning off friendly fire would mean no team killing, which is one of the most frustrating parts of PS2. It's a needless frustration. Your basicly saying that no one HE spams a point because other people are on the point right? I am not sure we are playing the same game here. I will easily bet that if you asked everyone who plays PS2 if they died to friendly fire in the last day when they where on a point (to the people that actually stand on the point) you would get every one of them to say it happened today or yesterday.