Vanguard and NC-Max are OP.

NC MAXs are great as a VS MAX. Just engage them at range and the stupid ones stay there and die, while the smart ones retreat and wait for you to come to them inside their 5-7 meter kill zone. The smart VS MAX knows better and waits for the NC MAX to come into his kill zone outside 5-7 meters.

Helpful hint: if you're a solo MAX it's usually not a good idea to take on an NC MAX by yourself, but if you have, oh I don't know that thing where you're part of a group and you can ask for help. I forgot what it's called. But you can ask somebody from that thingy to get 1 conc nade and that helps your chances of winning against a single MAX greatly. The OP is in your mind. It's a mental crutch that you need to justify why you've lost, instead of seeking alternatives to your inferiority complex.

I still say VS MAX's are better than NC ones because your killing potential is much higher due to larger ammo cap, superior ranged combat, and the fact that you don't need to have ext. mags to be a competitive/aggressive MAX user. I like my NC MAX don't get me wrong, but I'm tied to an ammo pack and constant reloading. That in itself makes being an aggressive NC MAX user a skill-based platform because you're limited in what you can do if you stray too far from help. Also don't get me wrong. I'm not saying NC MAX's are hard to use, just that in comparison to using a VS MAX, the NC MAX's are harder to use in general due to the above reasons.

The Vanguard is easier to use because of the shield, even in its current state where it takes a whole lot of less damage than it used to. Prowler lock down only helps if you're already anchored or the Van is stupid enough to stay to duel. Magrider burners are cool because they allow you to maneuver out of or into situations that no other tank can perform, which is only half the battle. The other is outsmarting vanguards into shielding early or denying them any advantage by engaging them from the rear, and for that you need stealth. Don't go toe to toe with a vanguard out in the open face to face. Always prefer the flank from rear (this is the best option) or side with plenty of cover to offset any direct damage from a 1v1 against a vanguard. Always be a full afterburner away from a rock, fat tree, or any terrain that can cover you if you cannot win your engagement. The Van shield may indeed still be somewhat OP, but now that it can absorb less damage opponents can take that shield down quickly if engaged correctly from behind from the outset of a 1v1. And if you can't take down the shield, then you should use the oldie but goodie advice of backing off until their shield fizzles, and re-engaging them.

As far as the OP, it seems to me like most of the examples he gave are due to a lack of skill and really he needs training from a veteran so that he can expand his view from being a martyr to that of champion. You need help breh. Ask around, good tankers usually want to help inexperienced ones. Look around ask around and I'm sure they'll help you. Whining about it on the forums usually indicates you have no desire to improve your own game and want the devs to hand you a win because you're too lazy to learn the ins and outs of your empire's tanks.

If you were on Emerald server, I would tell you to ask me (waawaa), lovepack, alarox, klypto, and any of the other outstanding vanguard drivers that I have seen out there that know how to use the vanguard to its fullest.

From someone who plays all three factions, this is a pretty easy one.

The Prowler is the only tank that can stop an entire zerg faster than any other tank. TR MAX with Kinetic and Pounders is the deadliest MAX right now. You're afraid of NC MAXes? They can't one clip you if you have KInetic. You'll kill them TWICE with Pounders before they take you down. Don't even need to use Pounders, just equip two Mercies with extended mags and keep your aim on their head.

An NC MAX is charging towards you? Charge away while he's charging at you, then attack him. Keeping your range is the key.

Vanguard or NC MAX aren't OP in any way. You just need to counter them correctly.

Funny how statistics mean squat when you are face to face with a vanguard.

What was Vanguard's driver on Ketamine? I can't tell you how many times I've played my balls off and got the drop on a Vanguard for them to pop their shield and *****slap the living Jesus out of me. That doesn't mean I don't kill Vanguards, but don't act like there is actually some parity between the 2 tanks because their isn't.

Yeah tell me how exactly you're supposed to do that properly in a bio dome, amp station or tech plant? If you're caught in medium to close range you can expect anywhere from 780 damage per hit compared to the TR or VS of at most 167 damage. Sure you can make the argument that their not as effective at range in an open field, but given that most max fighting happens pretty much point blank it's a fairly mute point. With regards to the Vanguard, I don't think they're OP, I just think on a like for like basis the Mag is utter poop comparatively.

As someone who plays a Vanu as his primary I find it very interesting from your stats how your KD is almost half that of the NC/TR, care to share?

Because VS was my first character (as you can see, 2012) and I was mostly exploring the game trying to learn things instead of getting kills. Was kind of a Sunderer driver. My KD doesn't change at all when I play VS. It will take forever to bring it up to what I have on NC and TR because those characters were made after I learned the game. Also, I don't care about KD so don't understand why you have to bring it up

Orion > anything anyway.

As for the MAXes, I haven't died to an NC MAX in a while, probably a month. They're too easy to take down with Kinetic and Pounders. Just keep your range (not hard)

The problem with being able to take alot of damage and shoot 2 shotguns is as long as you dont have a tank against you you shouldn't really have a problem, the shotgun max might not 1 hit you at 30 yards but it can 3hit you, and with out aiming well or timing it well, because of how this game handles lag,,,, ( your standing every where any one sees you,) and its collision for cover is unknowable, so basically when you see a nc max run away into another room and hope he didn't see you, and if he has matlocks instead of scatter cannons, gg, until you can get a sneaky c4 on it, as for the long range comment, if your soloing in a max your going to lose it fast, other people will pick you off at range, the "op" comment is that it is completely dominant in close range, although, I have taken one out in a stock vs max close range,. but I don't know how, the shot guns rate of fire is just too high to deal with the spread and land hits, I have taken out vs maxes with 1 rocket and switching to primary running through them repeatedly, but this wouldn't happen with a NC, when you see them you die, accuracy just dost mean enough on them,

I've done that against NC MAX's. Git gud.

Sounds again like user error to me.

Why on earth would you stay there to engage a shielded vanny? Just back off, wait till the shield fizzles, and re-engage with as much distance between you and him as possible so if things go south you can use terrain to back off, and re-engage him. Once his shield's been used, it's equal footing for the most part.

If you're trading shots, remember to use cover (strafe in and out of Line of Sight) while reloading to maximize your killing potential. If the vanguard rushes you, you should have already backed off sufficiently to seek better terrain or better cover to re-engage where your magrider has the upper hand and they can't get you (usually from a positions of elevated terrain or where it would be harder for a vanguard to reach you).

If it's all flat ground, then seek somewhere with a lot of cover. Flat open space combat vs. a van/prowler is not to your advantage.

Also place tank mines into chokepoints if the Vanguard is pursuing you. Tank mines are a tanker's best friend.

All of this requires prep-work and foresight before engaging a vanguard. You have to outsmart them. Their shield makes them overconfident. That's their downfall. Use it to your advantage, don't play into their strength and go toe-to-toe.

The terms death by a thousand cuts comes to mind. That is the magrider vs. a shielded vanguard that turns around to come at you if you've hit them in the rear.

I tend to stay well clear of Scat Maxes for the reason stated above so I can't recall being killed by one recently, but I've had times where I've been taken apart by a Scat Max before I could reload my Cosmos's, simply put I was out damaged using the counter max weapon.

I only brought it up because I found it interesting, given the similarity between the other 2 characters.

The Orion is pretty solid, but give me a Godsaw any day.

I'm sorry, but I suggest you check my stats first (Zenox) before you start insinuating I'm some derp and giving me lessons on how to use a tank. The fact is you can't really run all that well from a Vanguard because the Mag is horribly slow and if you do run you obviously have to show your rear to the enemy, so unless you take Racer he will close, catch and kill you if he's any good. Even with Racer it's a gamble for a Mag to run with it's fat behind showing as the speed increase from Racer is not significant enough to put you out of reach of even a stock Vanguard chasing.

The shield is very potent and is an excellent tool to get you out of trouble, if you get the jump on a Vanguard in the rear and that shield goes up, you've now lost the advantage because they can equalize the damage with you in a very short amount of time especially if they're running with an enforcer. Failing that they can always run, repair and and come back for you at which point they have a straight up advantage.

At long range you're unlikely to kill anything with a Mag because of the high projectile drop unless you have a superior firing position, which is of course one of it's major strengths, but extremely favorable situations like that are not the norm. So realistically As a Mag you're engaging somewhere in the mid ground most of the time, sadly mid ground can quickly become close quarters at which point you're out of your element completely and therefore fair game to both Prowlers and Vanguards.

However, like I said I don't think the Vanguard is OP, I just think the Mag is garbage at killing tanks and that's not to say that I don't get my fair share of tank kills, but when I come up against a good tank crew I rightly feel up against it.

While I really like the Orion, I do agree that the Gauss Saw is a very good weapon. You just need to reset it a lot because the sights are broken. Headshots are just too brutal with it. Love it.

Right all you had to say was that the you've lost to good vanguard crews and you would have been saying the truth. The percentage of good vanguard crews 2/2 is like 1/10th of a total armor zerg, so it's not worth getting up in arms about it. You lost try to re-engage him when he's busy doing something else don't go at him 1v1 stalk him. Ask a friend to distract him. Even if it's only pinging away at him with a lightning/ESF/whatever your friend has. This is a combined arms game 1v1's exist only on the forums or in isolated incidents from which people create whole philosophies that lead to nerfs/buffs in the game.

Saying they are trash at killing vanguards when clearly they are dying in droves is where you mix up myths and reality.

FYI always take racer Mr. "check my stats" guy That is if you plan on hunting armor.

Skirmish vehicles > tanks.

I am amazed zenox told waawaa to "Check his stats"

Like seriously I am having a hard time swallowing this.

You seriously said this to waa in public hahahaha "before you start insinuating I'm some derp and giving me lessons on how to use a tank."

If WaaWaa is kind enough to spend time trying to help improve your gameplay and experience as a result , accept it as a blessing , instead of being so damn defensive about your "skill" and "stats"

FPC + Saron hitting the rear will instagib a lightning, and leave a vanguard critical.

You're using PC. You ought to be using FPC. Do you have an AV gunner when you do this?

If you want to be able to jump a Vanguard from behind up close and win handily then you should be using FPC and a Halberd gunner at the very least. No tank can safely brawl with HEAT/PC and no AV gunner.

I never run without a gunner sporting a Halberd or a Saron and in the last couple of weeks I've started running with a Halberd and an FPC quite a lot. In recent memory I can think of at least one occasion where even with full AV selected and unloading the first salvo to the rear of a Vanguard didn't net me the kill. It was pretty close, but all it took was 1 missed shot and we lost and that's the problem, the margin for error on a Mag is almost nothing.

As you yourself said, you can only think of one instance in recent memory, amongst the sea of other things that you killed in your AP tank. ONE TIME.

LOL!

You only have 5 hours with FPC lifetime.

Even assuming all of this time is over the last few weeks, 5 hours in the last couple of weeks is not what I would consider "quite a lot". It makes me doubt your honestly regarding everything else.

I prefer to discuss the topic rather than focus on stats but if you're going to use anecdotal evidence then I'm going to call you out it.