Server Smash is Over!

yawn

the feelz

If the win isn't caused by skill then they're not better. That's how I see it.

All you're saying is win -> better, but when it's that close, there's externalities, and the match is designed not to have ties no matter how closely matched they are, there is no way to actually quantify that Mattherson was better.

I literally don't care that they won, because they didn't win in a way that demonstrated superior skill.

This sentence right here is the problem with your entire argument.

You are failing to consider that fact of how unbelievably close this was to going one way or the other. If Mattherson was truly better, Waterson would not have broken their defence and got on point at the last second - but just a second too late. There is nothing I can think of that clearly shows Mattherson won via superior skill.

The match was designed to not have a tie. That means, if the teams are evenly matched, the winner will come down to, in effect, chance, and that is really all that happened.

Mattherson is NOT better. But that is not the same as saying Waterson IS.

I will be honest I don't know anything about football. I probably shouldn't have used that analogy

Let us look at this in a way that will compensate for the massive amount of human error in this. In science there is what is known as a margin of error used to help reach conclusions on events that are corrupted by human error.

In this case it was a test to see which side is better. However due to not starting the timer correctly, unclear rules, both sides breaking other more clear rules, and several other issues the data was corrupted. Thus allowing for a large margin of error as to which side is "better" which a 1 point victory that came down to the last second is well within the margin of error with the amount of screw ups there were.

You are living in some kind of fantasy where everything worked perfectly thus allowing you to clearly state which was "better" while in reality the waterson players out played the math for most of the match with math only coming back in the end. Thus only leaving the logical conclusion of both sides being relatively equal. All of your examples are well organized events which have a clear metric with no confusion to them. However here there was a **** ton of confusion and misunderstanding. Also in those events you are talking about you don't have a team win by 1 point then say "Ok over time the other team has to score a goal in the two goals" then when the other team defends the other goal say "The other team still has a chance of scoring the other goal" thus causing confusion.

When you bring in a margin of error and treat this as a test to say who is "better" then you only get that result.

As you are looking at it now it is a case of which server was luckiest. For all we know had the timer been started correctly they wouldn't have had that second. That or they would have had an extra minute.

As I said before you are foolishly looking at it black and white for bragging rights when in reality it became complicated the second human error came into it.

Expected a certain old German party's propaganda. Left disappointed.

Nothing matters except the end result. Human error occurs in all major tournaments. But they are ignored and the final result is concrete, regardless of any silly mistakes made.

If you are in a 500 lap race and you are winning for 499 laps, but someone passes you in the last lap because your engine choked for a split second, you lose. No if and's or buts about it.

Yes Waterson was in the lead for a long time, mostly due to their large pop advantage for the first hour and a half.
Mattherson made a gigantic comeback, capping 4 or so bases in about 7 minutes time.

All tournaments have rules that are broken by players, ALWAYS. And there's even time glitches in sports tournaments as well, but it is what it is unfortunately.

Do I think Mattherson is straight up better than Waterson? No they def. seem evenly matched. But Mattherson did, undoubtedly, win the server smash. The only reason there was any confusion is because of a bad recount. Had they triple checked their numbers, none of this drama would have ensued.

Also, it was made perfectly clear during the match that Waterson needed to defend both the octagon and EMC in overtime. There were actually 4 bases in contention when overtime began. I really don't know how anyone could have thought that if they only defended one of these bases, Waterson would win.

This is why I don't understand why overtimes are done like this.

I apply this same logic to any other sport: a one point difference is not enough to judge one team to be better than the other. So if you reach the end of regulation time (or overtime, in this case due to how they handled it) and one team has a one point lead, you keep playing until either the other team ties it up, thus proving the teams are evenly matched and the game is a tie; or one team gets a two point lead over the other, thus proving they are slightly better and deserving of the win.

I stopped caring. I have characters on both servers anyways...
Epic battles are coming to the east coast, that is all that matters to me.

I think that this was the best possible outcome. Matty would never ever have stopped chanting tropes of being the best, but Watterson went blow for blow and proved itself. Now for Matty players there's more incentive to work with Watterson folks as they've shown that they can hang, Matty actually conducted itself with a modicum of dignity showing that THEY'RE larger then forumquest rhetoric as well which should help Watterson folks feel better about the transition, and everybody gets a competitive and revitalized server to play on.

And everybody got an interesting match to play in or watch. And just enough drama to be poignant because lets face it, a blowout either way would have been unsatisfying.

Well ok I did lose a bit sort've, my underdog Matty Tr and Watterson Vs characters will soon have a LOT more allies. But I'll probably get over it in a few seconds. Better fights and even more targets anyways, will be interesting at least.

Even had a wild BCP sighting. Entertaining all around imo.

it's quite amusing how some people think that fighting over a server name over a game is a matter of life and death.

First of all, knock it off with the ad hominem attacks. I didn't call or imply you were a fool. In fact the only thing I did is we might disagree on a cultural basis. Which I still believe is happening here.

Second. There's no science to this. SOE decided the results. Under their parameters. Matherson won. Had Waterson been better UNDER those Parameters.. then they would have won. There was no condition that there could have been a tie. That was the parameter of the contest. Someone had to win. If it comes down to luck, then it comes down to luck.

No team wants outcomes to go to chance. So you play harder to ensure you're not relying on it. And you can't honestly say for sure it went to chance. Maybe a Squadleader put a beacon in the wrong place at some point in the match. Maybe someone fired when they shouldn't have sometime in the match. Thats literally millions of variables that led up to it coming down the wire. One team made probably one mistake more than they should have. And that is why they lost.

You're not going to tell me that both teams sat fighting in one building at a single base for the entire duration of the match. That didn't happen, and we both know it didn't. Both teams caused the events that happened at the last moment. Everything they did right, wrong, failed to do, or just happened to make the right choice at the right time, or wrong choice, led up to that moment. That's what I'm talking about. You can't measure the entire match on a single instant. That instant didn't happen in a vacuum.

So if Waterson wasn't the worse of the two teams. Then their actions prior to that instant wouldn't have caused that instant. But they did. And that is why Matherson is better. This happens all the time in College and Professional sports. Its the cause of many sports debates and rivalries. For example, I'm a Duke fan and I can go on for HOURS arguing with a UNC fan about which is the better team. But it comes down to whoever won the game, was the better team. The next time they meet, it might be different.

And as I said in my first post. I'm from Connery, I've got no emotional attachment to either team. The only servers I have played on were Genudine, Helios, and Connery. Genudine was merged with Helios which was merged with Connery. So I have no vested interest in Matherson or Waterson. So don't call me foolish again. I'm not compromised by my emotions based on server, I've competed in many different sports and competitions throughout my life on many different levels. So I know what I am talking about.

********. Given everything that could have caused such a small delay, it is statistically more likely Mattherson won by chance than by skill. Thus, they're not the better team.

I am not saying you are a fool I am saying you are looking at it in a foolish manner.

I'm getting rather tired of running this conversation is circles as every post has been the same exact argument reworded.

Here is the bottom line.

better
higher in quality
more skillful

A win based upon errors and luck do not denote which group is better. All it shows is luck.

You can say who won but in this instance the team who won isn't better. They aren't worse but they aren't better.

That is as simple as I can get this argument. If you attempt to run this in a circle yet again I will just copy and paste this.

Server is being called Emerald ... So you both lost ... GG

I will not stand for this, I propose it be changed to Emerson, or Emberson!

Praise the Sun!

Ill be honest. The moment EMC flipped, I jumped up and hollered happily.
Name it Emerald. Waterson deserves to not be slapped.

I think the name Emerald means we both won.

And I find it offensive that people think it's ok to lead people on when the stakes have clearly been defined and then doing a bait and switch after everything is said and done.

I keep reading these posts and I'm still not sure I understand. Now granted, I'm a Mattherson player, and I would have had no problem calling ourselves "Waterson." In fact, most of us had resigned ourselves to that fate rather late in the match when the Eisa line folded. And even after the win, we have no problem calling ourselves "Emerald", and apparently this was agreed upon by -both- server's reps long before the match. But what I don't understand is why all these Waterson players are saying they would have won without technicalities.

First off, don't forget that Mattherson was working with the same misinformation as Waterson. The announcer kept everyone informed play by play. That there were five minutes remaining, and then that the match was going into Overtime. They told us what bases were in play and what each team needed to win. When it was announced that a cap of either EMC or the Octagon would net us the win, Mattherson completely pulled out of the Octagon, despite holding 3 of the 4 points and contesting the last. Don't forget that by this point, one of our own outfits had ragequit from the match thinking it was already over, so Waterson was not alone with people leaving.

And so the call was made to throw everything we had at EMC, and this is where I'm confused. There's all this talk of Mattherson winning at the "last second", but of course it's a last second win when the winning conditions are based on a countdown timer... lol. Waterson was pushing B & C point at that point because Mattherson had made the tactical call for several outfits to recall to Galaxies and drop on A point. I know this because I was in the VCO squad that captured that A point. I don't consider that "last second luck". I consider that a risky play, as we had to decrease our numbers from B & C points to assault A point, but it worked for us in the end.

As for the Overtime surprise, I'm sorry but that is on you. Even though Mattherson talked a lot of ****, every one of us knew going into this match that the score was going to be very close right from the get go. We learned that from the first hour of the Matty/Miller Serversmash a few weeks ago. And because of that, a considerable amount of time was taken to delve into the Overtime rules during our server's ServerSmash meeting on TS3 two days before the match. Overtime is not a technicality, but a rule of the match. The fact that Waterson went into a match without fully comprehending the rules of that match is nobody's fault but your own.

I know it sucks, but live with it and get on with your lives. The match was incredibly even throughout, and that has me more pysched than ever for the merger. I feel bad for anyone that wants to waste time whining about the result of the match now. For instance, I know that for over a week now, many reps for the NC on Mattherson and Waterson have been in communication and hammering out the details for a union between the NC alliances on both servers. We may have been enemies last night, but we are way more excited about being allies tomorrow.