Do not let this dalton ammo cap nerf happen

On the flip side the dalton gunner doesn't have to divide his attention to moving while aiming.
The lib also has the advantage of firing from above.

Yeah, no. I still don't see how it's much harder overall. And that's without taking the combat mobility into consideration.

Only if the tank is conservative with his ammo and/or has an ammo sundy or tower close-by.

All I see is SOE making Libs gunship doing bombing runs and/or surgical strikes instead of slow bombspam. Flybys will be the norm. Fly in, drop all the ammo you can, then fly out to get back to the air pad to rearm. Libs got the ability, agility and mobility to do so, no other vehicle can.

Tank drivers invest even more certs into ammo capacity and have to make just as many trips.

If that doesn't convince you nothing will. In my opinion with 300+ in a Lib and 200+ in a Tank i find gunning and piloting for a Liberator much harder then Primary or Secondary gunning in a Tank. You are entitled to your own opinion and thoughts on this and discussion is always welcome so I am going to have to Agree to Disagree .

He's not convinced because you're lying. And you know it. Flying is more difficult, yes, but gunning? You're exaggerating if you think it's harder. The lead is a little different because the shell inherits the Liberator's velocity, but any decent player can squeeze off a few shots in VR and be plenty accurate to hit ground targets with decent accuracy.

Basically, you and your opinion are full of sh**.

So tankers don't speak together? (Pilot+Secondary gunner) Only in a lib are people allowed to communicate?

In a tank, a secondary not only has to support the main gun, but look all around against for other threats and warn the driver if needs be. For C4, mines, infantry with RL or AV turrets, another tank, flanking harasser...

Don't dumb down the job of tankers. They share infos as much as libbers do. Even if they move on a 2d plane, they look around 3d.

Libs got the main belly gun who can be supported by the tail gun, the driver's job is to take them to a battle and evaluate the decision as to when to pull out. A bit like... ok nvm

But yeah, vehicle comms are not a lib specialty.

Here we go- you need to play more in tanks. If the driver and gunner does not coordinate and shoot different targets you just have half DPS and Die- especially in Magrider. Same level of coordination/verbal/mini-map and target syncing is needed. MBTs engage and are engaged always by more then 1 target.

In liberator it is fool-proof- every scrub can see the pilot go nose down to tankbust stuff so he must go dead forward with the belly gun and just shoot 2-3 seconds after the pilot,not that hard to learn really.
It is not the same if you face several enemy tanks all armed with different guns and with different HP levels.
It requires a lot more coordination and situational awareness in this case because 1-2 shots at wrong target and you are toast.

The Driver have little idea where the gunner could shoot if he wants to shoot as well,same story with the Lib, if both drivers go in 3rd person view then both can see what the gunner do.
Also if you are good Magrider crew you must use stealth in order to be competitive,so there is second requirement that the gunner does not shoot on every target, positioning is more important then with Liberator. The Liberator is alpha predator- it needs to fear only by other Liberators- only they can sneak up and instant kill it, compare it with ground where every peasant except infiltrator can sneak up and instant kill you.

I completely agree with him. Over 2k kills with only MBT Halberd, getting close to 20k on Dalton, and Halberd/any tank secondary is still much easier to use than Dalton. Sweet counter arguments from you though.

I wouldn't use this kind of strong language (as I wouldn't consider it easy).
But essentially it's different, not harder.

Reducing ammo caps for air is probably the most sensible thing in the world. IMO, that means air can be fast, powerful offensively, and airborne (an advantage to not overlook) but limited by having to go away every so often. The Lib can also then keep its tankiness to a certain degree. I would just nerf the ammo caps to 1-2 mags then tweak the weapons to be adequately destructive within those limited rounds, really.

It'd be better for both smaller fights (less hover and pummel capability, even if they can swing a fight still) and for larger fights (more powerful weapons limited by ammo cap means it takes less time to unleash destruction, so you are rewarded immensely for taking the risk of flying into flak city.)

It won't fix everything in the game, but an intrinsic lack of time on target capability in air would go a long way into allowing everything to be balanced, if different.

That whole 2 hours you have in a Lib really provides an in depth perspective on how hard gunning is. I don't know why you are so upset, I would advise pulling that stick out of your J908 and relaxing a little. Don't derail the thread and get it locked.

I have more time in a tank then you and more time in a Lib then you, if your entitled to an opinion so am I.

Hold on, let me see if I'm reading you correctly. You have ten times as many kills on the Dalton than you do on an MBT, and you think that lends credibility that it is more difficult?

With arguments like that I don't actually need counter arguments.

Your gun has been brought into line with other vehicles. The only difference is that now you won't be able to hover on station and just dump Dalton spam.

You have no argument to make.

You're entitled to an opinion, but you're not entitled to be correct.

And, you're not correct.

I didn't intend to say that it was Liberator exclusive just that in my personal opinion its more important for the success of a Liberator then a Tank at the most basic level.

Yes, because I still feel that Halberd is much easier to use, even with that amount of experience and practice with Dalton.

I know multiple amazing dalton gunners who still miss quite a bit of shots on ground targets. There are many factors involved and it is not an easy thing to master, and even the best will miss half their shots. But with our current ammo capacity missed shots were a non factor mostly due to the ability to keep firing. With only 40 rounds available it will be to large of a hit on Liberator effectiveness.

Assuming I'm performing decently, 90%+ accuracy is very common how I run. Fly low, tank bust, give angles and murder something in under 3-4 seconds; bug out, land, repair, and rinse and repeat. Too many pilots take potshots at distance IMHO, and I used to be one of those pilots until I learned how effective all-in strikes were. Sure some situations you cannot do this, but are forced to limit yourself and take long range pot shots at armor.

If the pilot is not allowing you to take those high accuracy shots or the flak is to heavy for you to get runs like I do, either it's an issue with the pilot or an issue with the area you are engaging. Many times I have flown into hot areas just to take one target out, escaping with fractions of life, and repeating again; I do not randomly hit targets, but coordinate all fire on a specific target and put out high accuracy shots that make the difference between getting out alive or letting that skyguard stay alive and kill us on the escape. SPM and actual impact on the ground game is highly significant when performing this way.

High altitude bombing never should support inaccuracy, direct hits with low accuracy should be commonplace in this scenario. There is no reason to reward token damage for just firing in the general area of a target that you cannot get close to in the first place due to flak or fear. You want to take out armor, get close, strike hard, and get the heck out of dodge as they explode in seconds; not poke poke poke, I poke you to death from ranges you are ineffective at engaging me. Risk vs. reward is justified in the previous scenario not in the second.

And yes, with a good gunner and a good pilot, accuracy is near perfect at distance on predictable targets, and they are able to maintain direct hits on nearly every shot with proper adjustments. How unbalanced is that for the receiving end already without accounting for splash?

You feel, you feel, you feel.

That's not an argument. Here's an argument: Firing from an elevated position is always an advantage. Difficulty is a non-issue, because any increase in difficulty (minimal at best) is in exchange for the fact you are in a plane shooting down on things. Your time over the target should have significant limits, and odds are you'll be chased away by an ESF or a burster MAX before you can empty your ammunition.

That is an INCONVENIENCE for you, an inconvenience dealt with by every vehicle in the game, except, the Liberator that can carry a dump truck's worth of ammunition and just spam everything in sight. The inconvenience will add to the difficulty in such a way as to be more equitable for the advantage of firing DOWN on targets.

And? They miss. They run out of ammo and need to reload. The advantage of being in a Liberator is not significantly diminished by having to reload more often.

Seriously, think about that for a minute. The "big" nerf..... is simply needing to reload more often. What a nerf. There is nothing anyone can say against this that is not hyperbole.

If you miss right now, you are already dead. There is no room to miss shots for an effective Lib crew. If you are relying on splash to do anything in a hot area, something is wrong. The only use for splash is medium to long range harassment on hard to target units, allowing you to damage something that you shouldn't be able to get close to over time with low accuracy. Anti-armor splash creates lib crews that are air-artillery, with little regard to actually landing hits, but only to get the hit near the target. Again, little risk vs. substantial reward, and this play style rewards lobbing shells in a general area instead of training gunners to predict the targets future position and shell trajectory to make a direct hit.