It's time to change PPA...OR...

SOE will most likely nerf the PPA down to Canister levels ... and while they are at it, they will probably also nerf the tiny bit left in the Marauder to get it down to Canister levels ... because an AI weapon doing it's job is not intended in InfantrySide.

Chances that SOE will actually buff anything in regards to Tanks is out of the question ... because Tanks ruin Infantry fights across the like 7 bases left on Indar were they can actually do something ...

Canister rework? LoL ... this will never happen ... I actually hope it never happens, the first time they did it by changing it from single shot to magazine feed in order to "buff" it nerfed it by a lot of effective range, sustain and removed like 3 pellets from it along lower base damage. It actually was NERFED in it's buff patch with MBT secondary revamp a long time ago ... despite the intentions of SOE to buff it ...

The Canister actually was a monster sub 30 meters and like 2kill 1 shoted at sub 10m. But the Harasser patch changed all that.

SOE is never going to give the C85 what it needs, which is splash and a much. much larger magazine. It is a shotgun. Shotguns do not get bigger mags even if they're worse at all ranges than the larger magazine alternative. No exceptions. Literally not a single one, once, ever in the history of this game. The Jackhammer was vastly underperforming compared to all other shotguns for over a year. Never saw a single adjustment. Not one. The only reason it's considered great now is because all other shotguns have been nerfed so hard over time.

May as well push for a level playing field given the facts.

The Canister has had reworks. Many of them. The problem is that it either needs to change fundamentally or be treated fundamentally different from shotguns, neither of which have any likelihood of happening any time soon. Hell even in the most recent and pretty significant buff to the C85 SOE STILL gave it considerable bloom per shot despite also dealing with huge damage dropoff AND spread. The PPA deals with literally none of these!

I would be fine with a banshee on my prowler . I kinda doubt my enemies would be though.
And NC just needs something different. Never tried that thing, but a shotgun on a tank just sounds ********. Maybe an airburst projectile that rains down a hail of shrapnell when you click the button a second time? Hmm would be OP since it can ignore most cover....
And somebody help me understand this: Most people talk about the PPA taking three hits to kill somebody. Why am I dropped in two all the time? 235 Impact Damage - 300 dmg 1m Splash sounds like 535 damage on a direct hit, which should take 2 hits to kill somebody? What is it that I don't understand? Or is it actually two-hit and the three hits are a deprecated information?

It had changes, yes. I edited my post at the same time as you made yours. But changing it from single shot quick reload with one hell of a punch to a clap on the shoulder 8 times with a huge reload is no rework, its a slight change.

A rework in my eyes would be a normal Enforcer, that fires Air Burst rounds that explode in proximity to Infantry, just like FLAK does it at air crafts. 10 rounds, 2 shot kill, 3-4 shot kill on MAX FLAK. 0,5-1m splash, 150m/s Velocity or less, quite some drop ... that would be a rework.

Or different shotgun munitions, like slugs, flechette's, FRAG's and the many different types that exist ... it's a 85mm tube shooting anything that fits in it and there are tons of different things you can mount in that tube ...

Everything done so far were adjustments to make buckshot work ...

here we go again

the Prowler/Vanguard are, on their own, extremely potent. Vanguard has highest-damaging main gun, Prowler has highest damage-output-per-second. in comparison, the Magrider main gun is the one with the lowest damage and lowest damage output (in relation to other tank cannons). even the Lightning AP/HEAT cannons have a higher dps than the Supernovas

that is why the Magrider NEEDS very potent tank secondaries (Saron/PPA) in order to compensate for its weak damage output from its main guns. if TR/NC had the same effective tank secondaries, they'd probably be overpowered. remember why PU02 nerfed Terran stuff like Marauder and Vulcan? because it was op, end of discussion

The fact that main vs secondary balance is off and has been said to be off for such a long time ... (you know all the 1/2 Prowler discussion we have like every 2 weeks in the dark and forgotten realm of Vehicles on ForumSide)

But if my memory serves me right (which it usually does most of the time) the Vulcan was nerfed because of the Harasser and the Marauder was nerfed because of the Fury being nerfed aswell and the Harasser ... You see a pattern here? SOE gives a **** about what happens on Tanks or not, most of it was because of the Harasser.

Nah; all they need to do is bump the secondaries (inc. VS, seriously) to do ~60% of total damage and leave 40% on the main guns for all tanks and adjust their gun set up. Suddenly there's a distinct reason to run 2/2 over today's situation when there's no reason for TR and very limit reason for NC.

First rule of realm of Vehicles is not to speak of realm of Vehicles. What happens there stays there!

Because people are dumb and can't do math I guess? 2 Direct hits kills you, but if he's slightly off the splash damage alone can do loads of damage, lets say he hits 1 shots and then hits with the splash on the next shots. Dead.
So no, it's correct information, maybe people are just running flak?

Thanks for the awesome read Eskimo, I wish the devs actually read some of the things you write.

This is what I'm afraid of aswell.
I've always wanted a complete overhaul for the C85 because a close-range shotgun in this game will SIMPLY NOT WORK. Infantry has longer range tools to deal with the tank and the tank has to CLOSE IN to do it's job at killing infantry?

Great logic right there.

The number 3 google image search result for the term "Vanguard Canister" is this ...

To hell with efficiency and AI secondary balance! Gimme a chainsword! I'll gladly ruin my K/D (even more) for the lulz.

And thats pretty much how I imagine the canister.
Also a pretty accurate description of the vulcan before they improved the COF. It still is useless at anyhing above 40-50 metres (useless meaning that everything else just has a lot more dps because it hits better), but thats 100% improvement ^^.

Just bring the PPA down or the other 2 up to it. Its a little bit bit like the rocket primaries - first it was a few guys but now more and more notice it and do it themselves. At least the rocket primaries are limited to certain areas like biolabs. What makes the PPA even worse imo is that some magrider pilots manage to get to places other tanks can't. And suddenly your Infantery fight in the base that was so carefully optimized to exclude vehicles gets shelled with 50-100 deadly plasma rockets per minute.

Somebody needs to make a Vanguard image with a Canister on it and meme the thing "DRIVE ME CLOSER - I want to hit them with my Mag-Cutter/Enforcer" or something along those lines ...

Actually, this could be a general NC meme ... a Sundy with a Scat MAX waving it's Grinders in the air with a Vanguard besides it ...

On the whole either nerf PPA or buff Canister/Marauder ... how about, revamp Tanks. There are so many glaring issues, reported since beta, still in game, still unfixed or addressed or even acknowledged.

There are huge differences between low certed MBTs, gunned or not gunned MBTs, the balance between Maingun and Secondary needs to be standardized and the MBTs need to ne balanced as whole package, instead of singular guns/abilities/upgrades which make or break them.

Other than the lack of metagame, Vehicle combat overall and it's inegration into the goal of the game is the most unfinished part of the game ...

The PPA is just as good as its ever been, it just managed to continually evade the nerf bat after the Marauder and Fury got annihilated by it. The Marauder is complete garbage now, it has trash range like it always did but now it also takes so many hits to kill someone if they are just standing there taking it they have to be AFK.

What? Since when does the Marauder suck?

I think the increase in PPA numbers is due to the recent Saron nerf, as three shots to kill infantry is pretty ridiculous. So many Magrider drivers have switched to the Halberd or the PPA instead.

Dude it was nerfed at PU2. Unable to damage heavy armor and damage nerfed so STK went from 2 to 3.

Thing is: If you had PPA for Vanguards or Prowlers you would use it ALOT more, because you wouldnt piss your pants going up against other tanks 1on2... go up against a Prowler or a Vanguard in a mag 1on2 i dare you... (thats the risk you take with a PPA, you are easy pickings even for a souped up Lightning... ZERO armor damage)

Magrider has got no turret! Give us turret now! Also reduce drop and increase projectile speed to NC/TR levels... they are 10* better at shooting down ESF/Libs and ALOT easier to kill infantry with, since you can just turn turret and shoot from a bit of altitude to hit feet, as opposed to a mag you need to shoot upwards, so only direct hits counts...

Goddamnit, if i find a decent Vanu im gonna tell him to bring a PPA and kill me with it (propably his mates will off me before i can test that though).
According to the numbers on that gun, that also have been posted somewhere above, it does not take 3 hits to kill someone thats not wearing FLAK. Thats just an urban myth the vanu invented so they could say "Our gun has been nerfed so hard it takes 50% longer to kill".
Or wait... does it have a damage drop and you shell people at 50+ metres? Well bohoo, canister and marauder can't even hit something at that range. (Well I guess marauder could, but good luck aiming that).
And why the **** would you care anyway with a weapon that has 60% of its damage as splash at a 150ROF and a 50 magazine?

It's funny how the TR/NC have MUCH better main cannons than the Magrider and they pretend to have secondary weapons as good as the VS, and that's not subjective, all the TR/NC main cannons have more DPS and better velocity than the VS main cannons, in fact, iirc, the Prowler HEAT tank is more powerful against tanks than the Supernova FPC, lel.

And it's even more funny because the Saron was nerfed into oblivion when they changed it into a 6 shot that is only more powerful at a range where a Vanguard would absolutely destroy a Magrider.

Not to mention that countering a PPA Magrider is ridiculously easy.

The battle of Indar Excavation last night prompted this ?

Notice how quickly those magriders lasted against armor as they sacrificed most of their AV potential.
Notice the guy in yell that commented on the PPA spam but noticed it was HE lightnings that had caused his last 9 deaths?

Notice that the prowler doesn't need to equip an AI secondary because its dual-Heat spams better in a 1/2 prowler.


The magrider sacrifices all other potential to mount an AI gun.
And still we can't get the players out of them into the tower itself.


Simply counter attack with AV vanguards. You'll chew them up or cause them to run away scared.