About this stupid argument on other vehicules against Liberators...

The problem is that in certain situations libs are way too powerfull against everything. Imagine a squad or two with: a couple of MBTs, several lightnings, some maxes, lots of infantry. All of these can be easily shredded to ashes by a single lib. Even a skyguard and a burster max can't handle it, since shredder+tank buster take off both in a matter of seconds, literally. Last time I was shot by shredder it took him about a second or less to kill me, be it lightining or max suit.
The only thing that can fight libs is like a lightning, a couple of maxes with engies, (including good position for maxes with shoot-through shields) and a phlanax. Or a couple of skilled ESFs + some flak support. Unless you have that you are doomed.
Compare it to the fact that two squads of infantry can decently compete with a squad of armor + infantry squad(c4 suicide, max av, RL).

Indeed, and flashes are as small as a MAX, plz send videoproof of you taking out moving flashes at 450m with Lancer... you even said it was easy... i guarantee you it wont be more than 3 pixels wide... and it will move 20m in lancer-shot travel time (not to mention 2 second chargeup) just admit your an ******...

The lib isn't broken. The Liberator's resource cost + when and where the pilots tend to use them ARE broken.

There's nothing wrong with libs in 48+v48+ fights and even less in 100+v100+ fights, it's just small to medium+ fights that they become annoyingly OP. Then they become a distraction that takes entirely too much time and too many people to kill (if you're lucky). Hopefully they revert it back to where it was a few months ago, or when ever they took away the 2 deci shot instakills because I didn't mind stepping out for some mutually assured destruction. Most good pilots are harder to kill but they usually will give you a nice window to move out before they swing back around and are over your head shelling again, so I just leave them alone and wait for my chance to get to the objective.

I don't think you intended to provide a defense for people who want Liberators to be countered, but you did.

my mistake... Since they actually believe they have a chance to fight back is what I meant. They always have a chance to fight back even against air. It just might take more effort. I have started to be able to hit down reavers and mossies with my S1 when they are hovering/lolpodding.

Sigh...

The multi-crew argument is not ridiculous. Numbers are everything in this game. Playing since beta, I have never seen a faction win with a pop disadvantage greater then 40-60 (no, ghost capping for four minutes and then holding of an onslaught for the last 30 seconds does not count).
As such, if a vehicle that takes two people to man gets strictly outperformed by a vehicle that takes one person to man, there is absolutely zero reason to pull said vehicle in the first place as you're only gimping your side.
Overall, you save resources and cooldown timers but lose out on flexibility when using multi-crew vehicles which I'd say balance things out and so a vehicle with twice the crew should be twice as effective as a single-crew vehicle performing the same role.

Problem is people are arguing "Herp derp, a 12/12 sundie should then be TWELEVEE TIMES as powerful because it haaaaaaaaas TWELEVE people!". Problem with this argument is that
1. The sunderer have massive utility, mainly in AMS but potentially in ammo and proximity repair as well as troop transport.
2. Only 3 of those seats can actually interact with the outside, the other nine might as well not exist for all the impact they can have on the overall battlefield. In short, the sunderer is really a 3-manned vehicle with dedicated driver that can carry around nine other people that are to damn lazy to walk.
3. If you ignore the utility and transport aspects of the sunderer it is horrendously underpowered. The "dedicated" AT weapons have piss poor range and are worse then tank AP against infantry, it requires 50% larger crew then a MBT to man and still have to abuse composite rear armor (which I consider more of an oversight on the devs part) just to be able to compete with a MBT. At point blank. (At range you'll die regardless). And you would have liberators reduced to this state? Free kills for the scythes! Never for it to be used as anything other then 3-man transport. But I know, let's fit a max in the back seat, that will totally balance things out! *hint hint*

My only problem with liberators...and all vehicles is still the lack of even slightly advanced damage models. Other than that, AA accuracy, damage, range, diversity against aircraft health, damage output, cost and all that junk is pretty fine. They just need some critical components that we can break with a bit of luck and/or skill depending on your AA platform of choice. Even if it were just one in five liberators that I unloaded mag after mag of burster ammo into that'd spiral out of control and crash-land(or just crash)...that'd be okay.

So, let's stop whining for buffs or nerfs and let's calm it down with the constant insults from either side of the discussion and instead group together and start requesting some actual depth to vehicle mechanics(especially damage models).

Huh.

Must admit, never shot at a flash at that range with my lancer.

But my experience with it has left me confident I could take one out. I will have to search for a lone flash...

You cant see a flash at 450m so good luck with that... (go into VR put your waypoint on a flash and run til it says 450)

Actually is hard to hit a Liberator after 100m, even then you'll need 2 shoots to kill a flash.

The problem being this is a game designed to be fun and balanced, and if solo vehicles are outright superior to multi-man vehicles (in terms of overall manpower efficiency) then nobody will use multi-man vehicles.

I agree with you that some sort of better damage model for air units, or indeed all vehicles would be ideal. Some way to penalise vehicles for simply sitting there and tanking damage aught to be in the game. However nothing like that currently exists in the current game and adding it would be a massive change both in terms of developing it, balancing it and getting it to the point where it's fun and compelling rather than an annoyance. So while I think it's a great idea, I don't think it's a practical one.

Lib's resistance to tank shells and flak should be cut in half. After that changes to gun angles and flight characteristics could be talked about.

I'm wondering if air shouldn't have a low critical shot percentage which then takes away a big chunk of "health".

Tbh I think it's pointless arguing against Liberators. Just as it was pointless arguing against Harrassers.

This isn't a gameplay decision, it's a commercial one.

This is what the focused updates are. Frex, the Liberator update just meant a major buff of the Liberator to coincide with the new purchasable items being released for it. It's then left in an OP state until sales drop off.

Unfortunately, that's about as imaginative as their marketing seems to get. Short-terminism. Gets everywhere these days.

Probably won't see a change until the Valkyrie is released to get the same treatment.

I can imagine the arguments already; "Why is a three person vehicle meant to beat a FOUR person vehicle huh huh?!".

Hehe. Sad but true!

The only way you're hitting a Liberator through a spawn shield is if it is parked on the ground right next to it.

The way lock-ons fly now means you have to have a completely clear sight not only OF the vehicle, but of where it is flying too as well (which is pretty much utterly impossible through a spawn shield).

For an aircraft that won't always have clear line of sightnto your spawnroom, duckingnin and out of the shields is effectively equal to just shooting out of them.

It's not, not even remotely so, ask any Shredder user.

Especially since the lock-on pathing change, as any decent pilot knows and uses to scrub off lock-ons on terrain.