I thought the AV capabilities of the Vanguard were great until...

I thought the AV capabilities of the Vanguard were great until I started using Lightning more. I kitted it out with AP shells and basic frame certs and it kills everything. The slim profile and good handling/speed make for quite a noticeable improvement over even a very certed Vanguard, and the anti armor potential is only more limited in range. Sure the Vanguard has more range due to a faster shell, but ask any experienced VG crew and they'll tell you the VG shines at ranges close enough to where shots don't miss, so they're more or less equal in effective range, even with an Enforcer gunner. Then the VG Shield got nerfed to a shadow of what it used to be, which is a direct nerf to both AV effectiveness and versatility.

So I now ask myself, since every faction has access to AP Lightnings and the VGS AND Enforcer just got ubernerfed along with no buffs to the frame. Is the Vanguard performance acceptable? Even in its heyday, everyone always said the VG best trait was its AV performance and that it lacked in AI and versatility. To me I think at this point getting your gunner to pull an AP Lightning along with you will be more effective than pulling one 2/2 Vanguard.

Well SOE doesn't really care about tanks in this game.
After the constant nerfs the tanks are now just horrendous and only useful in a tank zerg which means that people complain about tank zegz and they get nerfed again...

As for the vanguard, the tank is still useful at a anti tank role but the other tanks prowler and magrider are much better.
All tanks could use a massive buff that make them unique and powerful.

Av lightnings are very powerful and perhaps even too powerful.
they should buff AP shells for tanks so that they can dominate the armor game like they should.
Lightnings should be more of a anti infantry tank anyway and the MBTs should be the hard hitting rolling/floating terror instead of the joke they are now.

Well i use a kobalt as a secundary weapon on MBT's, AP on primary... the only thing can kill me is a liberator actually. Light assaults and ESF can be killed becouse kobalts FOV.

Even a semi-decent 2/2 AP Vanguard will eat 2 x AP Lightening's for breakfast. 100% of the time, every time.

Buff AP shells? lol
AP shells are already super overpowered.
If anything, they need a nerf.

They kill tanks nowhere nearly as fast as Daltons or Tankbusters - at least not those of the Vanguard and Magrider.

Go toe-to-toe with a Vanguard in your lightning.

See how long you last.

The main problem with Lightning is that is looks really bad

Im fairly certain Vanguard > Lightning. The lightning is faster, i doubt the slim profile does anything

2 AP lightnings are better than 1 2/2 VG at this point, you'll probably lose 1 of the lightnings but the VG will lose, just too much DPS and if they're close its impossible to keep 2 lightnings off your rear armor unless they both follow the same path around you.

However 2 AP VGs would crush 2 AP lightnings, just too much health, lol.

Lightnings are pretty good in terms of damage output per player but they are still super squishy targets for many other things.

Their balance is also super boring. I have rank 5 reload on my ap cannon and you only have rank 4 so I win hahaha. Such great gameplay.

I'm presuming you're NC given the content of your post, in which case I would heartily agree that the Lightning is a pretty decent alternative to the Vanguard for all AV duties. It's not nearly as powerful straight up as the MBT ofcourse but the speed and manoeuvrability make a powerful alternative case for it's more ponderous heavy cousin at least in my experience.

However I'd say it doesn't quite apply as much for the other factions and the reason for this is the Vanguard. Specifically it's shield. It's actually quite doable to rip a prowler or magrider to pieces if you can get around them or catch them from behind. However the VG's shield in my experience almost always buys a competent VG driver the time to engage the lightning with his heavier gun and win the engagement by blocking the essential follow up rear shot needed to quickly destroy an MBT. The other MBT's don't get that time to respond. It basically means that out in the field I tend to be hesitant about engaging Vanguards precisely because I can't be certain of quickly destroying them before they can respond and wipe me out whereas I'll pounce on a prowler of mag without a second thought.

I'll freely admit though that I haven't done much tanking recently in a Vanguard or a Lightning so I'm not entirely sure how far that assessment holds up with the changes to the shield. But that's how I found it to be until recently.

I'd be curious to actually setup a scenario like this on PTS sometime. At this point, I'd seriously doubt it.

Yea, because the lib is ridiculously OP. You cant balance weapons by comparing them to the overpowerd lib weapons.

AP itself is very powerful already. The shells are accurate, have the highest projectile speed and do a lot of damage to all targets. AP is only bad when you have bad aim.

I regularly run 2/2 AV prowler or AV lightning and can sincerely state that my most difficult/terrifying foe is still the 2/2 AV vanguard, ie the only tank that can actually tank tanks.

Vanguard has a lot more hitpoints. If you attempt the flanking maneuvers I do against enemy armor columns, then one of your 2 lightnings is guaranteed to be killed by the return fire.

I never attack without an enforcer gunner, and usually one from my own outfit who can hit aircraft with it as well as I can with my AP. The combined firepower means that all lightnings die in the time it takes me to fire 2 shots, 3 on MBT's and sundies, and 2-3 on libs.

I also always run racer chassis on level 3 to chase down lightnings and harrassers. It's difficult to aim the main cannon on the move over rough terrain, just like it is in a lightning, which is where that enforcer gunner clearly beats having 2 lightnings.

I have also effectively used 2 AP lightnings equipped with stealth to flank and destroy armor zergs, but I would still rather have the endurance of the vanguard. My other lightning was still destroyed in that engagement when he became the focus of several halberd harrassers.

The vanguard does lack versatility, but I wouldn't say it's bad against infantry and air. My anti-infantry setup uses HE with the enforcer canister shot(yes, canister is very effective now) combined with proximity radar.

My anti-air setup is the exact same as my anti-armor, but I run with rival chassis and stealth instead of racer and nanite auto repair.

No offense, but 2 decently coordinated AP lightnings can be problematic for any tank crew. We can also stop with the shield doomsaying? I've yet to "break" the shield in my AP Prowler with Halberd before the duration ends. 2000 is still a lot of dmg

A single AP Lightning can take on a shield AP-AT 2/2 Vanguard if they have a terrain advantage, like firing from a depression over a birm to the rear or sitting higher up and firing down. But they have to hit the rear of the Vanny to be of any threat.

To be honest, it isn't just the Vanguard. I would rather pull a Lightening over a Prowler. In fact the only thing I pull a Prowler for is to lockdown and snipe a deployed sunndy from one base over. Once that is complete, I consider it a disposable vehicle and if I get any more kills then that is a bonus. If I want to go tank hunting I would pull an AP Lightning over an AP Prowler. If I want to farm infantry I would rather pull a Viper Lightening (yes even after the nerf) over a HEAT/HE Prowler. And yes, it is far more effective to have two Lightning over a 2/2 MBT. Hence why that is far more resource intensive, but that cost is split over the two people.

The slim profile does more than you think. It allows one to hide behind even small mounds. At a distance a lightning might be able to avoid some shells by moving back and forth (this would be more difficult in any other tank, due to less acceleration and a taller profile). A Vanguard is not difficult at all to hit at range, though it makes up for it in armor.