The TRUE problem with MAX faction balance (Click me, I'm not a nerf thread).

The TR and VS MAX should get a CQC option on-par with the NC's MAX AI weapons. Not a shotgun, but an arm mounted SMG which fires fast enough to be a proper competitor in the 5-15 meter range.

The NC MAX is not overpowered. Stop crying, think a bit and get to reality:

The NC MAX is diverse*, not overpowered. The VS and TR MAXes are not diversed enough: that is the problem.


*Slug ammo. That's the key.

I'm tired of people calling out nerfs. As a TR dedicated soldier, I've had enough of them and I don't think any faction should get any more of them.
firefalcon124.



*Hides in bunker, getting ready for a mass Forumside liberator bombing*

They do have these weapons. Nebula and Onslaught.

Why don't you just nail my face to a tree and cover me with fire ants?

Sounds about as pleasant as buffing MAX suits.

YOUUUUU SHALL NOOOOT PAAA...... wait you aren't trying to nerf me? Well that changes everything. On that note, NC MAX really needs a low skill AI spam weapon too. Something that has range that doesn't need to be aimed and clicked for each shot while also micro managing your own movement states.

Ehm, no.

The TR and VS have diversity. High accuracy versus high rate of fire allows the maxes to adapt based on their loadout. Ammo involved is also a factor.

The NC MAX is either restricted to CQC or midrange, and in either circumstance they give up a severe piece of their offensive ability. Pull slugs? You have effectiveness in midrange, assuming you're crouching and not moving, but you lose the ability to one-clip another max in the same way that the VS/TR long range MAX weaponry can.

Play CQC? Very effective at it, except for the reload which is SUBSTANTIALLY longer than TR/VS CQC weapon counterparts, but it still lacks survivability and even the gamble at longer ranges.

TR/VS can spray their CQC weapons and get kills at longer ranges. NC is heavily restricted by damage falloff and shotty spread.



My thought is simply give the NC a set of Gauss LMG's for their MAX. Similar to the Cycler, but following the Gauss faction trait. It'd sacrifice CQC capabilities for all around adaptability, which the other two MAXes have had from the start. Even if it's NS (although I hate a lack of faction connection), I'm sure quite a few NC players would be happy to see an alternative.

I don't know.

I play a small bit on TR and VS, neither are very high levels, but I can say that a TR MAX with a single 250 cert Mutilator upgrade is more adept at fighting than a stock NC MAX with a Grinder. Sustained fire capabilities, longer range capabilities, more effective CQC capabilities due to the shorter downtime, etc....

VS I haven't played much on but I rented a blueshift for lulz and was astounded at how many NC MAX kills I was able to pick up in a biolab fight. A BIOLAB FIGHT. A. BIOLAB. FIGHT.

15m makes a huge difference between the NC MAX and their other factional counterparts. While I do love my NC MAX, and have probably around ~4000 certs into it, I was amazed at how good at general combat even the completely stock VS/TR MAXes were.

But meh. "Shotgun killed me, OP, PLZ NERF" - Forumside 2014

Slug ammo? HAH! If you want a close quarters weapon on par with the NC MAX, then let NC have a ranged weapon on par with TR and VS. If you think for one minute slugs are comparable to the ranged capabilities of the other two - you either don't use them, are clueless or are trolling.

As it stands, VS and TR are the diverse ones - they still have the ability to kill very quickly in close quarters (and don't have to cert into it without losing their range). NC do not have the luxury of range, and if you choose slugs (and deal with RNG bloom) you give up a lot of your close quarter killing power - especially against other MAXes.

The only advantages of NC's close quarter killing power is insta-gib infantry and MAX fights. Slugs mostly nullifies both of these for a pitiful excuse for ranged power. The TR and VS will still kill in less than a second in close quarters while still retaining the ability to fight at range, without even certing anything.

For the record, I'm serious. I would happily allow TR and VS to have the NC close range killing power if NC get the option of their long range killing power. Screw empire specific-ness, I would rather have more options and better balance.

All MAX units are pityfull at long range.

Anyway, you seem to be missing the point: I'm talking about MAX vs MAX engagements and how VS and TR MAXes lack the firepower to do anything against an NC MAX in CQC.

Infantry are not concerned.

So you want another set of Hacksaws?

A 0.3 second 0m TTK difference is not "diverse"; it is functionally the same, which is the current difference between the best TTK NC AI weapons at 0m and the best TTK TR/VS AI weapons at 0m (ignoring Blue Shift head shotting).

Slugs are only worth taking on the Mattock (in fact there are only two NC AI weapons worth having these days - 1. Grinder with pellets and extended Mags for 0-8m and against other MAXs & 2. Mattocks with extended Mags and Slugs for absolutely everything else - the Scattercannon is pointless, and the Hacksaw is largely the same except for in some pretty specific situations where you want to empty a mag into a no miss wall of targets and get straight back in cover - although even there the Mattock or the Grinder is likely to be more or less as effective).

That's not to say that perhaps TR and VS AI MAXs shouldn't or couldn't get a shotgun weapon, but only if NC AI MAXs get a Blue Shift/Mercy type weapon.

But you don't want to grant NC MAXes the option to fight evenly at extended ranges? Have you ever actually used slugs in a medium range fight against TR or VS MAXes? It's not even a contest.

At least be fair about your suggestion of balance. You want CQC MAX fighting power like the NC has? Then simply offer the NC MAX the medium-long range MAX fighting power that TR and VS have.

Run KA5 it literally makes any TR/VS AI MAX immune to all NC AI MAXs, but dual Grinder MAXs with extended mags (the rest all have to have 1 x ~4 second reload (@ 0m) to kill you).

Failing that stay out of the 0-8m range and you're also golden.

KA5 and any range greater than 8m and you basically would have to be AFK to lose.

No, I want the weapon I described. If you spam SlugSaws at range or while moving you hit nothing and they still have only 20 shots after spending 1000 certs.

There's no such thing as long range killing potential in ANY MAX AI weapons.

I dont see why NC get the illusion that the other empire MAX units are good at range, its silly to say so.

Never have I killed ANYTHING in my TR MAX with any AI weapons without having to get within 20 meters of them.

Oh i see.

You want the original Hacksaws back.

I like your sarcasm. But that's all it is to me.

Well I meant comparably long range, compared to the NC range it is long - but to be technical we are mainly talking medium range. I am under no illusions, I have an 86 VS and a 54 TR.

And for the record, the blueshifts on the VS MAX are godlike accurate (for a MAX) and are very capable of ranges further than 20 meters. (Unless something drastic was changed to them since the many months ago I played VS)

All TR and VS MAX units got a 30-50% CoF increase, making them far less accurate.

At 20 meters, BTW, NC slug MAXes hurt. A lot.

You forgot that it only hurts WHEN you hit something.....and you cant really lolspamm that thing.

Yet they will still lose in a fight against a VS or TR MAX - even after giving up their lethality in close range and certing for it (And that's including if the RNG bloom gods favour you, even with mattocks)

The only way your original suggestion could even be viable balance-wise is if your new CQC weapons for the TR and VS reduce their capability to kill anything beyond 12m - just like an NC MAX.

An NC MAX has to choose between being mediocre at medium range, or being lethal at close range. Your suggestion would have to make the same kind of trade-off OR you give the NC a more well-rounded weapon with effectiveness at close and medium range (like the TR and VS currently have)

Lol. As if TR/VS maxes are any worse at close range. If anything they are better because you can kill more people without having to reload.