I don't know if I'm using it wrong or what, but I trialed this weapon 2 times and honestly, I'm pretty disappointed. It's stats look great, but using it is kinda painful. What I like: 1) FINALLY. A unique model. 2) Good hipfire and ADS speed However, I found that this weapon isn't very good at getting kills, especially when using the sights. It's TTK is surprisingly longer than my NS-11C. Not sure if the weapon is bugged or I'm not using it the right way. What do you guys think?
HVOT Zenith: 723 ROF. 143 Damage. The NC-11C: 652 ROF. 143 Damage. The formula I'm about to use calculates DPS of weapons. RoF / 60 seconds = Rounds Per Second * Damage = DPS 723 / 60 = 12.05 RPS * 143 = 1723.15 DPS 652 / 60 = 10.86 * 143 = 1553.94 DPS Soooo by all means the TKK is lower on the Zenith than the NS-11C. You're obviously doing something wrong.
Possibly. If a weapon with a lower RoF has a lower TTK than a higher RoF wep, then something is wrong. I'll try adjusting my playstyle to better fit the weapon.
It's not as accurate as the NS-11c, albeit with adv grip it's reasonable for medium ranges. That could be why it feels like it has higher TTK, if you're using it at long enough ranges for accuracy to make a big enough difference over RoF.
DPS is not everything. Recoil/COF/RPM/bullet velocity all impact overall accuracy. So simply saying "you're obviously doing something wrong" because it has the higher DPS is a strange statement. By that logic, ie, that the highest DPS is always the most desireable traits, everyone would always use the highest ROF per damage tier since it would be objectively better. What I'm saying is... Why adjust to a playstyle that is not your own?
It's not just you, it's that the weapon isn't particularly well suited for any role. If you're going for CQC you're better off with the VX6-7 or the Serpent while for midrange the default Solstice VE3 is better (or the Pulsar C if you prefer the 167 damage tier).
Is the Zenith DPS bugged? To be honest, I have been asking myself that before. I'm using it for a while and I know for a fact that it takes longer for the Zenith (DPS 1723) to bring someone down than the Pulsar C (DPS 1605). Especially Heavies with shields sometimes need to eat a whole magazine before they go down. That and the ammo is bugged (30/150 instead of 30/180), I don't feel like using the Zenith anymore. Oh yes, inB4 someone tells us that it has 0.75 ADS speed and is therefore OP.
It has 0.75 ADS speed and is therefore OP. Anyway, it's not the DPS, it's just that the gun is meant to be an all-rounder like the Jaguar and Bandit. I could say the same about those guns, that the Lynx/GD-7F outclasses the Jaguar/Bandit up close and the Cougar/Mercenary/Razor/etc. are better at range. That's all true. But few weapons are as versatile in all situations. When you slap an Advanced Grip and Compensator on the Zenith, it still has really good hipfire. It's basically a Jag/Bandit more oriented toward a Carnage-like role, but still capable up close. Yes, some guns beat it at specialized roles. That's the point, those weapons are designed for specialized roles. The Zenith is designed to do everything well, but nothing (except mobility) best.
The ammo isn't bugged, it's simply not intuitive anymore. The stats show you the ammocount per magazine and the total ammunition and not the magazine size + reserve ammunition. Although I think it did before, but I could be wrong. I was wondering the same about the Cougar and today I noticed it again with the recon device, it said 1/4 in the description, but actually you have 1/3. So the latter number displays your total ammunition count and not your reserves.
That would depend on your definition of "well". Its better than average Hipfire accuracy isn't that much better than that of the Solstice and using a compensator makes it worse. It's not much of an advantage for an Adv. grip build and the low velocity, lack of a 2x scope and higher ADS CoF make it pretty subpar as a midrange weapon. All these would seem to indicate it would be better as CQC weapon but there are far better alternatives around. The 0.75 multiplier isn't enough to compensate for all of its shortcomings. The Bandit by comparison is much better specialized for its role as a 167 damage tier close range weapon.
The Zenith has a total of 180 ammo, that's what I meant with 30/150. But, for VS, NC and NS, all other 143dmg carbines have an ammo pool of 210, 167dmg carbines have 180. For TR, afaik 143dmg carbines have an ammo pool of 240, cougar (167 dmg) has 210, which makes sense. That's why I think it's a bug, because the Zenith is the only carbine with lower reserve ammo. If it's not a bug, it's a downside that doesn't make sense to me.
Ah, just went to the PTS and saw what you mean. I have to agree with you. It's the only 143 dmg carbine with an total ammopool of 180, although all the other 143 dmg weapons have 210. The 167 dmg weapons are supposed to have a total ammopool of 180. Weird, you might want to report this. If you compare the VS carbines, it looks like a VX6-7 with less RPM, 12 additional damage at range and a little better long reload..
If you repeatedly choose to define a weapon as "a CQC weapon" when it's clearly not, of course you're going to feel disappointed that it doesn't live up to your expectations. TR have the same problem sometimes with the Jaguar, arguing that it lacks the raw damage output of something like the Serpent while ignoring that, in spite of the tight hipfire COF and SPA, it's not "a CQC weapon." It's a generalist weapon that is equipped to do well at most ranges, but has some deficiencies that prevent it from outclassing CQC or long-range weaponry (lower DPS, no 2x Reflex). The Zenith is exactly the same way, except it has slightly better projection than the Jaguar and Bandit (Adv. Grip makes a difference, plus it has lower horizontal recoil than the Jaguar and the lowest sustained recoil of the three and access to a Compensator on top of that) but is slightly worse up close (no SPA, lower DPM). The Zenith has probably the highest skill ceiling of the three "Jaguar-esque" carbines, due to the lowest DPM, but it has a great deal of potential as a portable mix between the SVA-88 and Carnage. In the same sense that one shouldn't complain about those two weapons because the Orion and GR-22 do more DPS, one shouldn't complain that the Zenith doesn't hipfirire as well as the VX6-7 because the VX6-7 is supposed to hipfire better. The Zenith hipfires better than the Solstice and ADSs better than the VX, and it can do both at the same time with the same loadout, and it has 75% ADS movespeed which neither of those has. That's the niche it has. It's a good niche, it just might not be the one you wanted or expected. Which means you need to adjust your expectations rather than try to shoehorn the Zenith where it doesn't fit then declare it's terrible at the role you've decided it should fill. Now, is it overpriced? Of course, it's new and shiny. Does it potentially have an ammo glitch? Yeah maybe and if so it should be fixed. But it's disingenuous to suggest the place where it shines - versatility and mobility - is outclassed by other weapons in the VS carbine arsenal, because that isn't true. Absolutely it's outclassed at individual performance elements by other weapons, that's undeniable, but the point is you get above-average everything but have to accept inferiority in each individual element to another weapon. Just like the Jaguar isn't spitting out damage as fast as the Lynx and isn't as accurate as the Cougar, yet is still arguably the better weapon in comparison to either because of its overall advantages.
It feels very good to me. Have only few kills with it yet though. It is not "needed", someone already explained how the specialists do everything better in CQC or at range. This one has great hipfire and ADS speed and doesn't totally stink at range, even if the low bullet speed is quite a drawback there. Looks and sounds of the gun go well together. There are some guns in this game that just feel wrong to me due to odd sound and recoil patterns. The Zenith is not OP, many would rather claim it sucks at any role. But it's a pretty gun and she is making lovely noises when I squeeze her. Very satisfying!
I'm not trying to define it into a specific category so much as looking for a niche where it shines. In my opinion there isn't one. Versatility is a nebulous concept but when choosing whether to use a weapon or not I ultimately have to ask myself: "why should I pick this one over the others?" The 0.75 multiplier is not a sufficient reason and my point is that the Zenith has too many shortcomings to warrant using over the alternatives. I can understand the issues the TR have with the Jaguar but at least it has access to SPA and a better RoF (and the standard 40 round magazine) which helps it fill the niche of a close range weapon. Even so, there might be better alternatives (I haven't tried the new Lynx yet) which is a valid argument. It does fill a niche in the TR arsenal as the only carbine with improved hipfire characteristics. The Zenith on the other hand doesn't really have a niche of its own. Its hipfire stats are identical to the VX6-7 which is better for CQC. Meanwhile it has too many issues as a midrange weapon. There's enough overlap between the ranges for the VX6-7 and the Solstice so there's no real reason to equip a sort of an in-between weapon that provides marginal advantages in a few areas (slightly better ADS than the VX6-7, slightly better hipfire than the solstice but you can't really have both on the same build) with significant negatives in others. It's not so much a jack-of-all trades but instead just mediocre all around. Judging by the usage stats from DA's website many VS seem to agree since it's currently the least used of the 3 new carbines.
Also judging by those stats - its got the highest KDR of all the 3 new carbines. The Cougar is absolute junk if you compare it to the Zenith/Bandit that way.
You're not using the advanced grip, that's the problem. If you don't want to sink 1200 certs for it, try it in the PTS or VR and see if you like it.
I'll consider that when I (eventually) decide to get it. Must find something to burn my 5600 certs into...
I dont really like the gun either. Its kinda.... um... feels wrong? With a gun like that I would typically go on large kill streaks but no. It just dont feel right for me.
