Balance Liberators right NOW! AV, AI and AA loadouts! ENOUGH with 1 OP loadout to rule them all!

Bombs that do massive splash damage against infantary should not do the same to vehicles.
Fire bombs are not the same as anti vehicles bombs if you want logic applied to it.

Liberators are completly uber OP right now, instakilling everything!

The Dalton is crap at killing infantry now, wear Flak armor scrub.

I couldn't agree more

The DEVs love to fly and Own!
They dont like to be killed with their friends.

I dont have any friends, so I never fly one unless its used for a decoy for wasting infantry bullets

cant be serious. if you're out in the open without anti-air, you deserve to be killed by a lib.

They kill infantary, tanks and air with the same loadout, owning in all that areas!

Soon as the FOTM Libs show up i leave the area lol, stop feeding the trolls.

I have a Vanguard with top side armor, a shield, and a flak cannon and I die in just over one single second to Libs. The people who don't think Libs are OP are obviously the ones piloting them and racking up the kills.

Taking down a Lib is impossible unless you are at an amp station or something. They just circle the smaller points and spam kill everything in sight.

So in other words, enough time to fire one Dalton round? Don't you think that's exagerrated a bit? Do you think that undermines your stance?

ESF and Liberators share that trait.

One Loadout and they can effectively fight everything without being weak in any areas. Strange that when a Tank has a loadout like that it is considered OP and nerfed ASAP.

They even took away the ability to punish bad Liberators by making them take almost as many AP rounds to kill as another Tank does so now they have no reason to not just dive bomb you since you can't kill them faster than they can kill you.

Daltons practically have to direct hit infantry now, splash radius is nearly non-existent.

Zephyr doesn't have armor piercing, so tanks resist them better. Been that way since the AP change months and months ago.

Liberator :
- Dalton = AP/HE tank cannon fused
- Tank buster instant-gibs skygaurds
- Can fly away and repair
- Tail gun can shoot down ESFs easily and have a massive coverage.
- Tail gun can act as 2nd belly gun
- Lock-ons do next to nothing to Lib
- Cheap. Only 350 resources. Tanks cost 450 resources
- Lightning, MBT, Harrasser, Sundy, ESF can be instant killed with C4. Very hard to instant gib Lib
- Fast, can attack one base and then fly across the continent and attack another. Tanks cannot do this.
- Tank buster wrecks ESFs esp. with Libs get drop on you when you're concentrating on something else
- Shredder shreds pretty much everything
- Lib can move quickly, AA Max, skygaurd cannot. You might spawn Max to kill it and end up wasting resources when it runs
- Overpowers Skygaurd
- Overpowers AA max
- Overpowers AA turret
- Only ESF and other libs can pursue libs. Tanks and sundy really can't run from anything
- One lib can lockdown outdoors and force a sqaud to spawn camp on certain bases
- 6+ lock ons to kill
- 1.5 mags of skygaurd bullets to kill
- 150 rotary rounds to kill


I'm also done certing my Lib, can't wait to start farming like crazy.

-Dalton only kills infantry if you get a direct hit.
-Tank buster has a 50m range
-Can fly away slowly, getting shot at the whole time
-ESFs can attack from the top
-Only if you run Bulldog, in which case you can't fend off ESFs
-Yes, one person with a lockon doesn't do much. Get three, then try again
-Not really that important
- It takes 6 seconds to kill a tank with C4, and 78 seconds for a Sundy. If you die to C4 in harasser, you deserved it. Also, the lib FLYS
-It can attack one base, then spend 10 minutes flying across the continent to the next base
-If you get tankbustered as an ESF, you were flying straight in front of the lib at short range
-True, but it shreds everything not that well
-Then you switch out for an AI or AV max and ask someone to give you a ride
-At short range, sure
-Only if the MAX is standing in the open without moving
-The AA turret is free. Go hop in another 3 hexes away and kill the lib
-Cover?
-If that squad consists entirely of LAs, sure
-It's a 3 person gunship. Of course it'll take a few lockons to kill.
-That's like saying 1 AP round should kill any other tank
-Which rotary? At what range?

The real answer to your question is can you do all of these amazing things when you get in your own Liberator? No,probably not at least not without a gunner and probably thermal optics,composite armor and decoy flares just to name a few things that MIGHT help you survive in the open air . Plus in a big battle staying in position to allow your gunners to hit things is suicide once you start taking shots you have to move or you're likely a goner. The only reason most Lib pilots know when to leave is because they got exploded out of the sky a few times before. I will admit I don't like fighting libs as an ESF but that's because you are pretty much screwed once they get above you and it is way easier to hit aircraft with a dalton than people will admit,I think it should take atleast two Dalton rounds to kill an ESF but that doesn't mean Liberators are overpowered. With the right set-up alot of things feel overpowered a lightning with thermal optics and proximity radar is already many times more effective than one without them.

Comparison with MBTs

- Two non direct hits will kill non Heavy infantry, dalton reloads quickly. A few shots kill armor, not much cover for tanks from libs. If you run out in the open for 8 m to another, you're gonna die. Gunner only needs to focus on gunning

- You're screwed when TB hits you unless you're a shielded Vangaurd, might as well hop out and get daltoned. When you spot a tank, you can fly away, line up an attack run, and kill tank, easy to predict tank movements. Libs are sometimes suddenly behind you when you're in a tank

- Tank can driver away even more slowly, get hit by rockets, max, bassilisk, c4, tank mines, dalton, rocket pods, other tanks etc

- If you're a lib you can just bank sideways or dip down, ESF's hover is good enough to gain altitude and if you're flying straight up, easy to line up a TB shot since your ESF profile is big. If you're in a tank ESF, Lib, infantry can attack also attack you from top, infantry can get cover pretty easily at roadside rocks and indoors

- A walker can hit and damage tanks and ESFs, only basillisk has about the same versatillity with all others being exclusively AA, AI or Anti-armor

- Lib can always still run away from lock-ons and hit another base, you need like six lock on heavies, terminal nearby too if you're not a heavy or don't have Lock on equipped (not sundy cause you will be daltoned). Tanks cannot run, if it runs, it's probably behind that mountain and you can go get it with an ESF, lay some mines, dalton it

- One lib which costs 350 can probably go and end up killing a bunch of tanks costing a total of 1000+ vehicle resources. Doesn't make sense if a Lib stronger than a tank, it's cheaper as well

- Yes Lib flies, hence, the most common way lib gets instant gibbed is when it crashes when trying to kill that one tank hiding under tower/biolab but clunks under the landing pad, but generally, there's no method in making Lib crash. For all other vehicles except for Gal and Lib, you can use tank mine to instant kill Sundy, Harrasser, c4 to kill tanks, noobtube to kill Flash and ESF instantly

- If a Lib fleet takes 10 minutes going to another base, then a tank column takes an hour to switch and attack another base on the other side of the continent

- Not uncommon to quickly pass the crosshair of a Lib doing attack runs / trying to avoid belly gun/ tail gun/ get on top of it, only like 1 second to die from TB. If a few bullets graze you when you fly past, you're at half health.

- I saw this one Lib shred three skygaurds as they were spawning (TB, Shredder mix) A sqaud who counted on the skygaurds to kill the Lib all got shredded while trying to reach C point at Searro Listening post (not sure if it's exact name) (seriously, why da fuq is that up there?)

- You don't get a ride and you're left behind

- Skygaurds with fire suppression, top armor, the skygaurd gun itself with whatever performance slot that altogether costs lots of certs to manuever around can get killed by a stock lib

- Unless spawn room camping, it's going to die or need repairs. If there's an Engie, Lib can just go hit another base.

- When a Lib kills your AA turret, when you hop out, you die. AA turrets sometimes get blown up before you can even man them. Sometimes, Lib can just fly away and hit another base while you sit therein the AA turret and waiting for it to come back. 3 minutes later, it's not back, you get out, walking away and then the lib is back, you run to turret/cover, but you die

- Not much big sheds or massive overhangs for you to fit your tanks inside for cover, especially when there's a quite few tanks out there.

- Only infiltrator can move about outdoors when a Lib is around. There are many bases which require you to run out across the open for a bit to get to A point, if you're heavy trying to storm an enemy building with a Lib shooting at you, you will die, or your squad will not be able to hit A point as a group since Libs forces everyone to take cover at closest building, they're probably be stuck there or die trying to reach A point or fire lock ons at Libs or spawn skygaurd or reach shield gen. By the time you get a fleet of ESFs and kill the lib (which runs away, maybe killing one ESF in the process and forcing everyone to chase it), you're probably out of time to retake A point.

- Considering how Lib can kill a skygaurd head on and it can also run away, repair, come back/hit another base. 1.5 mags is if all rounds hit, if lib is 100m+ away you're going to take more bullets to kill it cause bullets have such a low velocity, it will probably run away. At least when it comes to tanks vs tanks, enemy tanks can't run away

- You see Lib, it's shooting at your platoon, you spawn skygaurd/AA max, Libs runs away. You wait for it to come back but suddenly, squad leader needs everyone to re deploy immediately and defend some base on the otherside of the continent, wasted skygaurd/AA Max

Why bother spawning a tank when a Lib is just a flying MBT and does everything better than it?

Edited for clarity

I think that the whole argument around balancing Libs is very difficult indeed. My main issue is that they have changed my play style - it is no longer worth going on 'Sniper' tank hunts due to the fact that a single Lib will make mincemeat of you if you get caught. So I stay with the zerg.
In fact, a single Liberator can dominate just about any small engagement - BUT - in a large engagement with lots of AA and rocket launchers, they can be destroyed and do not feel as OP.
I have changed my playstyles to suit the current balance - I fear that some Lib pilots have done so too, and look for the small engagements. Where I can categorically state that they rule.

Overall - and I think that many (MANY) would agree - they feel just a bit too fierce right now...

10 minutes to cross the continent in a lib?

Are you flying backwards?

It takes me less time in a Vanguard, and that is on the ground going 1/3 the speed.

Nerfbaby threads are sad.

Whatever happened to players taking on their challenges?

make effective damage range same as lock on range

Shredder OP.