Vanguard Shield Changes + Implications

Jumping out of your tank and taking the hit.

New Harasser metagame:

Put a Flak Armored AV MAX in the back of your Harasser. The driver should be a Triage Medic and the gunner should be an Engineer, both of them with Flak Armor.

The MAX can take more hits from AP weapons than the Harasser can, adding an additional layer of tankiness to the vehicle. If the MAX goes down and you're still taking hits, switch your gunner into that spot. Don't worry, he can take direct hits from most AV weapons, too, because he's infantry.

The Harasser takes fewer hits to kill than its crew would if they were on foot.

was that not the complaint of people? This seems like they answered people for once ( i'm not a tanker please don't yell at me)

I like my vanguard.

Today we wiped like half of a huge TR tank zerg using:-

2 vanguards with gunners
1 harasser with gunner

Half a squad in short.

Basically it was:-

"You see that anchored prowler right there? Yea focus fire on him."

He would die nearly as soon as he could unanchor himself.

For some, yes. For others, we wanted the shield to get additions that could be exploited by the non-NC. Just lowering the defensive power of the shield is the lazy approach. And there were lots of interesting alternatives presented on this sub-forum.

Unfortunately, no matter what happened, the Shield had to be nerfed one way or the other. The simple fact that a AP-AT Magrider couldn't even beat a Vanguard when it was caught with it's pants down and it's AP cannon stuck in the rear of a Prowler was unacceptable. And regardless of how much you were to buff(Ehem, "Change") it, taking away it's awesome 1v1 power is a nerf.

I suppose this may be due to my Flanking playstyle, but when me and Twentyfirst go magridin', it's always, always a 1v1.

I Twentyfirst shoot's one tank in the rear.
One tanks either flees, bails, or helplessly flails about it's main gun while I fill it's rear with HRB rounds, quickly ending the flailing.
We move on to the next tank.

Or...

We put FPC+HRB into the rear of Vanguard.
Vanguard pops WINSHIELD, turns around while railing us in the face.
We flee in terror, helpless to escape from the inevitable onslaught of AP rounds.
We die.

So to be frank, no matter what was done, there would have to be nerfs. Regardless of how much wrapping paper, bows, ribbons and lace they put on the new package, any reduction in 1v1 power is nerfing it.

yeah I got that, this patch seemed full of lazy fixes

but doesn't this fix the main principle of a shield allowing a vanny surviving getting jumped? though in a lazy way

To an extent, but Vanguards are still freakin' ballerinas when it comes to turning in place. The Shield will now be down if the Vanguard doesn't manage to turn in time to avoid a second volley to the rear, but most of the non-scrub Vanguards I see don't take the volley to the rear at all once the shield is up, they just turn around enough to avoid it.

Oh sure, but as a lot of us seem to realize, they could have done a much better job at it.

Not funny. You wouldn't believe how many times I saved our Harrasser by tanking that last shot in 3rd seat, giving my driver additional time to escape.

Meh, Could also be from running inside the tank zerg all the time... or the fact that he's a member of the Air outfit on NC... so he has the protection of ESFs and Libs a lot more than a normal tanker. It can be difficult for flanking Mag's & Prowlers to operate in an area when there are high-skilled Reavers and Libs flying around. I know for me, I have a much easier time when my flyers are up in the air and I can rely on clear or at least distracted enemy air.

I think most of the level headed tankers in the sub-forum admit that the Vanguard didn't need to be nerf'd against infantry... which is what also happened with this patch. Most of us would rather have seen a more elegant option that would have nerfed the shield in a more AV focused way while keeping more of its AI power. That combined with a buff to the AI secondaries and minor tweaks to some base vannie stats could have made up for the nerf.

Instead it was a nerf-bat solution... a very blunt and not very elegant solution.

Well, in extreme CQC, you should be able to magburn to keep a rear shot for your secondary and maybe pop off an FPC shot as well.... Also, if you were in this position to begin with (full rear surprise factor) you should have picked a time when you had an advantage of terrain/cover as well as point-blank rear shots.

if you are in close range... then you should still be using cover as an advantage like you had to do pre-nerf, but now you have a bit more ability to take a volley or two and not be burning after the battle. Meaning, it's not such a razor thin line of advantage... you have a bit more advantage to play with.

In medium to long range... you should never be relying solely on the rear shots. The initial blast is great for getting a massive advantage, but at that point, you have them with a popped shield, have enough distance to use cover and strafe and still have positional advantage since you had the option to start the fight... and they didn't. So they are starting out the head-to-head fight with 2/3 health, no shield and having not picked the location of the fight... ie... a very large disadvantage.

I'm not sure if Kypto actually answered why he doesn't want reverse speed of the Vanguard to be buffed and I said I have a suspicion ...

My guess is that it has to do with the "reverse -> jump out and repair -> jump back in -> repeat"-extraction of your Vanguard through the most ridicules of fire ... it atleast saved every second Vanguard I ever pulled once from death ... sometimes multiple times ...

If it would be faster, the thing would reverse away to quickly and you can't run alongside it as it rolls back with no one actually in it ...

Vanguards and all the buggy things about them .. or Tanks in general ... well they are a core mechanic keeping the damn things afloat ... for now

That might also be the case.
I'll take your word for it.

Oh, no doubt about it, I would have rather seen one of the many ideas for adjusting it go live then a strait hit with the nerfbat. But the issue I foresaw with any changes is that many NC tankers seem to become enraged at the slightest mention of altering the shield, even if it's AI abilities were buffed as well. So no matter what happened, people would be angry.

I wouldn't say that entirely ... I for example would happily welcome a free Kobalt for my Secondary Gunner alongside his maxed out Halberd in return for having to run Fire Suppression ... or better the old utility slot Radar ...

Well, moresoe the unreasonable NC. There are some NC who understand why people like myself hated the shield. Lol, try and get him to pop it from range. Sorry, I'm flanking up close and personal, there's no escape from a Vanguard from 60 meters away!

then let's rent tech plants to other factions for certs

You know someone has had it too good when "fpc + halberd shot now breaks the shield from rear!" -complaints start to arise. Guess what Titan AP + (2) ML85 shots to magrider's rear does?

The best part is you don't even render until you are back in the tank already.