Really surprised by Vanguard "fix".

Stop saying Vanguards needs better AI capability "only" by increasing it's Heat and HE canon. Vanguards needs to be better against infantry even with the AP loadout for being on par with the insane Prowler flexibility (two shot, two infantry kill/try) !
Now, after a reduction of Vanguard's AV capability it needs a global flexibility buff!

Thank you SOe i was thinking about my subscription and you nerf the vanguard (and Gdf7 ) and buff a lot of Terram infantry , yes everybody knows that NC'´s are Op, I dont Know what are you Intentions , Terrans farming till the eternity I guess , but well done Soe. Yo got it , I quit.

Crying threads are sad. Mutual crying sadder.

"Especially" does not mean "Only"

Same happended with the striker. I know I know Striker was okay to you i know. Did you noticed that for TR the Prowler is the worst, the VS says the Magrider is ,and you say the Vanguard is.Stop whining.

That is a significant proportion of it, certainly, but even AP vs AP (and especially Heat vs Heat) AV-wise the Vanguard is NOT top dog, in fact it is often just below still.

Again even there, although it is much more evenly matched.

This is basically the issue with the Vanguard, it is a weak chassis compared to the Prowler or Magrider that relies on the Shield.

The other two MBTs conversly can run a varierty of loadouts with reasonable succcess (although with different strengths and weaknesses), a Vanguard not running the Shield though is basically just going to be subpar.

If they ever significantly nerf or change the Shield they are going to have to significantly buff the Vangaurds stock chassis (probably making it a clone of the Prowler is speed and mobility).

I think they should drop the cooldown of the Shield, turn it into a Resist Shield for brawling and up the general handing of the Vanguard so it can brawl better. The Vanguard should be able to mix it up like the NC MAX's do, but they're just too lumbering to let it. Not really sure how they should fix the main gun though, the slow but powerful shots feels right for the NC but it does leave it painfully lacking in the AI department and it'd need an AV DPS boost to remain competitive with the others if the shield does get a proper nerf to make it something that you might actually take Fire Suppression over.

Then again everyone would lose their **** if the whole tank got a re-balance like this, so I'm not sure it's ever going to happen.

Where is the evidence? Every performance based metric I have ever seen shows exactly the contrary.

... =/ So SOE Is out to get NC? They obviously have statistics. We can't use my examples of being utterly crushed by Vanguards point blank of course. Do we have current, up to date statistics on the three different tanks?

Vanguard is the best tank in the game and i mostly play TR and VS. when i want to use a tank i sign into my NC.

1v1 the Vanguard wins almost all the time.

the way i see the MBT's in this game..prowler is a sniper, magrider is a light assault and the vanguard is a MAX.

So can I has a Wraith Module on my Prowler?

don't give idea to SOE!!! or they will give us a Shotgun maincanon... wait that could help for AI farming, as i don't think i have ever see a vangaurd with something else than stock gun or AP.

i don't play vanguard often ( and even play with a no shield loadout for the lul and training) but what make me sad is that with suh change SOE didn't refound the ability, first 2 lvl are ok for some low cert delay reduction but 500 and 1K cert for just some second less is a lot ( for me), and people who have maxed they shield now have a lower lvl shield ( with still a better recharge delay but still)

as for people saying vanguard is fast, he is medium, prowler is the faster ( and fast turn), vanguard is medium speed, mag is the slowest but have lateral doddge.

also in all the math i saw, it jsut a 1 v 1 face to face withouth moving ( and missing) but will moving and let say both tank miss 30% of they shot ( should be more for vanguard but still) math will be different, and prowler can miss first shot and hit with second, we hit hard, but each miss is deadly for us ( better to try to fire if not sur to hit)

This patch alone several things were nerfed by that %. Where are the buffs to the prowler and magrider again?

• Timer on the max rank of nanorep was nerfed 33%
• Enforcer's rounds per clip was nerfed by 25% (additional nerf to reload speed on top of this in the same patch)
• Saron's direct hit damage nerfed by 45%
• Saron's inner blast radius buffed 100% (just gotta note, why are we punishing good aim and encouraging spam fire? Kind of odd.)
• Vanguard shield duration nerfed 25%
• Shield strength nerfed 33% (kind of redundant if the duration was reduced)
• Prowlers heat blast radius nerfed by 33% (AP is now likely a more effective AI weapon then heat due to velocity)
• Vulcan COF buffed 25%

Many of the vet NC players admit the shield is too strong. The vanguard being the weakest tank is pretty exaggerated.

So the Magrider magburns forward towards an Anchored Prowler or a Shielded Vanguard.

In both situations, the Magrider impacts the enemy tank, and instantly explodes into a fine mist of Spandex and nanites.


But, but... I used my special ability...

Funny, how people never include the Magrider in MBT balance discussions...

I think the damage/ttk numbers posted above are pretty straightforward and anyone whose head doesn't automatically begin to hurt when looking at numbers can see the 33 percent nerf was not based on combat stats.
I would also add that it should be taken into consideration that the shield and referenced extra hp are only in play for 6 seconds. Also the shield points do not have the armor resistance, so a decimator shot takes the shield completely out now.
And to the guy asking why the magrider was not included, unbind your strafe keys and you'll realize what you have that others don't

An anchored AP Prowler will actually kill a shielded Vanguard in 13.8s, while the AP Vanguard will kill the Prowler in 14s.

Interestingly enough, a non-anchored AP Prowler will kill a non-shielded Vanguard in 14s. So they have the same TTK. Although, a non-anchored HEAT Prowler WILL kill a non-shielded HEAT Vanguard first since an extended TTK means alpha strike is less significant. While I haven't specifically done the numbers for it, I think an anchored HEAT Prowler will actually kill a shielded HEAT Vanguard first for the same reason.

The reason Vanguards easily win Tank vs Tank battles is because we stack advantages by having AV gunners and using AP way more than Prowlers, while Prowlers are usually content with HEAT and going 1/2. This is the same reason Magriders are competitive against Prowlers.

No... the shield does have armor resistance. It takes two Decimators to the rear to drop the shield (I also think one to the rear and one to the side will drop it now, but I know it is close).

Being a VS BR100, TR 50 ish, and NC low 20s with a year of logon certs...

• The Magrider needs:

Driver visibility buffs, slight strafe acceleration improvement, +5kph max move speed, FPC +25ms or a slight reduction in shot gravity, which is higher then any other MBT projectile. (If i'm wrong, someone please point me at the correct info? Wasnt able to quickly find the current info.)
ES Ability needs to be re-examined for usefulness, and potentially reworked.

Saron is fine for AV, wouldnt mind more maximum ammo per upgrade level.

PPA: I cant hear you over the sound of how awesome my PPA is.

• The Prowler needs:

Main cannon is freaking awesome, Deploy functions well... when it functions. Clear advantages and disadvantages, but it takes forever for both prowlers and sundies to be able to deploy, it's as though the game forgets the capability exists without spamming the hell out of the B button for 2-90 seconds or so. I wince whenever my magrider is able to nuke a prowler that's just circling and strafing in place like a dog trying to figure out which inch he wants to poop in the midst of acres of perfectly poopable ground. Not having deploy work sucks.

Vulcan: Nice when you're in range (Although that means your tank's armor is in licking range.) Why would you put this thing on top of a tank designed to anchor in place and snipe from fifteen berjillion meters?

AI: If I wanted to use a fury, i'd use a fury, not a fury that cant damage heavy armor.

• The Vanguard needs:

Sweet jesus give this tank more torque. Getting this thing moving is harder then attempting to push a hippo out of a mud pit using nothing but your tongue and a tophat. (I'll leave that to your imagination.) Having such terrible acceleration is why vanguards aren't viable without their shields (In most situations, some can make it work. Your average player can't.) The primary cannon is amazing, HE and heat blow, but so does everything else in most non-infantry-farming-spawnroom-camping-yes-i-like-dashes situations. Unless you're a prowler.
Also, no gear popping arguments. This shouldnt be a mechanic, for anyone. If you want new players to keep playing, which you apparently do, make this functionality known, or patch it away. Compensate with movement buffs for vehicles that are forced to rely on it.

AV: Enforcer Enforcement is Enforced by Enforcing Enforcement with Enforcers. Say that 10 times fast, and fifteen magriders have probably exploded trying to magburn away.

AI: The canister... where do I begin? This is a shotgun. On a tank. Give me a bayonet on the main turret and let the secondary gunner swing at things, it'll be more effective. Use a kobalt instead, or give the canister new functionality... Ideally, just replace this thing. How about a higher caliber kobalt oriented weapon? Slower firing, smaller clip, traveling at 700ms or so. You can even call it a rail cannon.

It sure as heck doesn't seem that way. Vanguard pops shield, Prowler dies. Simple as that.

Where are you getting these numbers from? Are you talking about max leveled Anchored Mode? Firing at the front of a Vanguard with max level shield? Because I'll tell you one thing, if a Prowler decides to lockdown in front of an enemy tank, it will die. Horrifically. And if a Prowler is behind a Vanguard, iit's already got the advantage so Anchored Mode is a completely moot point. It's an awful ability whose sole purpose is camping towers to farm infantry.

Sure, we can run the numbers for the Magrider versus a Vanguard as well. The reason I didn't do the Magrider is that the Magrider's special ability relies much more on pilot usage than a flat out increase to stats. So while a Prowler gets increased DPS from its special ability and a Vanguard gets increased health from its ability, the Magrider's special ability (namely to escape or flank) is not captured on paper. Neither is the innate agility of the Magrider captured. Hence why the Magrider gets the highest accuracy and average Vehicle KPH.

So keeping those limitations in mine, let's look at a Magrider with Magburn I against a Vanguard with Shield I, and then a naked Magrider against a naked Vanguard. No need to look at higher levels, since both Magburn and Shield don't really get better with investments (at least in terms on a 1-v-1 tank encounter).

Vanguard AP TTK against a Magrider from the front is essentially the same as against the Prowler, because the Prowler has essentially the same armor, resist, and HP stats as a Magrider. So it stays at 16 seconds.

The Magrider AP cannon does 1865 damage with a 3.75 second reload. That 1865 damage is reduced to 32% by the Vanguard's frontal armor, then increased by 18% to take into account the Vanguard's vulnerability to AP. The effective damage per shot is 704.224, and each shot happens every 3.75 seconds.

Against the Vanguard's 6,000 HP pool, it takes 8 Magrider shots to bring the Vanguard to its knees. Those 8 shots take 30 seconds, so the TTK of an AP Magrider against a shielded Vanguard is 30 seconds. That's 14 seconds over the TTK of the Vanguard against the Magrider.

But that's if both tanks have 100% accuracy and slug it out in a face-to-face duel, which is the opposite of how you use a Magrider. That's why the Magrider is still the best performing tank against vehicles (AKPH of 55 compared to the Prowler and Vanguard's 51), but on paper it's supposed to be the worst.

How you correctly use Magburn is to either 1) run away to repair while your opponent MBT can't catch up or 2) Magburn past the enemy tank, spin around, and blast their rear armor before they can effectively react (and strafe to keep up with their chassis rotation). Combine this with the Magrider's ability to throw off shots while being able to engage the enemy on the move (Prowlers and Vanguards need to come to a full halt to maintain high accuracy) and you have a decent package.

Pretty much if the Magrider can get the Vanguard to miss 4 shots (which isn't too difficult given how the average accuracy of the Vanguard AP cannon is 41.7%), then it can kill the shielded Vanguard from the front. If it can zip by the Vanguard and engage the rear armor, it now can do 1540.49 damage against the Vanguard. Then it's only 3 shots to bring the Vanguard to critical, with a TTK of 11.25.