[Suggestion] How to create synergy between air and ground

The ESF is a very interesting aircraft. There is no question about that. It has a unique flight-model that allows its pilots to engage in high-skill, high-satisfaction dogfights. However, in the current context of Planetside 2, several compromises have been made on behalf of balance. Its flight-model - specifically its afterburners - has been nerfed, and the vehicle is under constant critique by players on the ground. Unfortunately, this means that the most interesting aspect of this aircraft is, and has been, gradually destroyed by implementations such as easy-to-use A2A weaponry. These were designed to encouraged more players to engage in A2A combat, but have ended up frustrating a significant number of skillful pilots. At the same time, the A2G aspect of this aircraft is by far the most boring. Pilots feel as if they have little to no impact on the greater scheme of things, and is often relegated to prowling at the outskirts of battles.

However, even if this vehicle did have the capacity to enter larger battles, there is very little synergy between it and troops on the ground. Why? Because it doesn't depend on them, and therefore engaging in any close-air support will make ESF pilots feel anchored to-, and limited by, their friendly ground-troops.

In this: This aircraft is great; it belongs in Planetside 2, just not on the continents.

Below I will make a case for the types of aerial vehicles that ought to be in Planetside 2, in order to create a more synergistic relationship between air and ground. My hopes is that this would create a balance, where air is both as prevalent and important, as ground vehicles.

Empire Specific Gunships




This is a standard gunship, akin to what you have in the Battlefield games. It has three faction specific variants. It is slower than the current ESF and less maneuverable, but not drastically. It has more armor than the ESF, is immune to small-arms fire, and holds two players: A pilot and gunner.

It has two weapon systems for both pilot and gunner. The pilot has A2G missiles of different varieties, and A2A lock-on missiles, also of different varieties. The gunner has access to the same weapon range as the Liberator tail-gunner, and a second non-lethal weapon system. This includes smoke- and EMP-impact-grenades, a laser-designator, etc. It has the below-radar attribute by default, meaing that ground-based lock-ons do not work on it when it is flying below a certain height. It also has access to multiple flares; it comes default with just one flare, but it can be upgraded to have three in total. Each upgrade adds 5 seconds to the cool-down timer, which is independent for each flare.

The role of this gunship is close-air support. Its slower speed, but higher survivability due to its utilities, stronger armor, and and extra set of eyes, means that is is both more capable of taking part in larger fights, but is also highly dependent upon the performance of friendly troops. It is therefore encouraged to cooperate closely with ground troops. Due to its flight-models it is forced to assume the role of a guardian angel; keeping ground troops (and friendly aircraft) alive so that it, too, can perform well. It essentially helps ground troops by killing targets that they would not be able to detect in time, as well as warning friendles of enemies up ahead.
It synergizes with friendly aircraft by serving as a buffer, or a distraction, between ground and air. It is essentially responsible for keeping the air-space cluttered, so that friendly Liberators can bombard without being deterred. With an aircraft like this in the skies, there would also be many more targets for the Liberator's tail-gunner to shoot at, thus allowing a Liberator crew to contribute to the longevity of friendly gunships.

Empire Specific Air Superiority Fight


This would be the new Air Superiority Fighter. For the lack of a better picture, Saints Row will have to do. It would have three faction specific variants. It would have a flight-model similar to the F-35 fighter in the Battlefield games. This means that it would have VTOL functionality for both landing and take-off, but the VTOL would be useless in dogfights, and it would be risky to engage ground-troops while hovering. The transition timer between flight and hover would be much slower, and it would have to engage in more traditional dogfights.

It will have access to two weapon systems, identical to the current ESF. However, it will also have access to laser-guided bombs that can lock-on to targets designated by friendly infiltrators, gunship-gunners, and Liberator tail-gunners. The biggest problem with this aircraft's flight-model is render distance. To overcome this issue, it will be able to fire at laser-designated targets, regardless of them having rendered or not. Its render distances will also be decided by how fast the vehicle is going.

The numbers below are just examples:

Between 100-80% speed, only aircrafts render
Below 80%, large ground vehicles such as MBTs, Sunderers, and Lightnings will render
Below 50%, Harassers will render
Below 40%, MAX suits and Flashes will render
Below 30%, everything will render

The role of this aircraft will, almost exclusively, be to keep the air-space safe for friendly pilots. With the addition of faction specific gunships, the Valkyrie, and Sentry (see below), there will be plenty of targets in the sky. It will synergize with ground troops in two ways. By keeping friendly G2A-aircraft alive, it will have a slightly indirect, but very important impact on the flow of battle. It can also provide an alternative to the gunship, providing short bursts of air-support, by being able to fire missiles at laser-designated ground-vehicles. The compromise here is that it won't be as consistent as the gunship's close-air support, but it is more reliable, as this aircraft will find it easier to stay alive due to its speed, and can be called in when needed.

Nanite Systems Sentry



This is the Sentry. It is made by Nanite Systems. It is essentially a weaker, 1-person equivalent of the gunship. It is slightly more maneuverable than the gunship, however, it has much less health. It comes with below-radar by default, as well as access to multiple flares - like the gunship. It has access to two weapon systems, both of which are relatively weak. Its primary slot has access to the same range of weapons as the Liberator tail-gunner, and its secondary slot is a weakened form of the gunship's A2A weaponry.

Its role is to fill a range of niches in the sky; a nuisance, a scout, and a transport. Compared to ground, it would essentially fit somewhere in between the Flash and the Harasser, and exists solely to provide more options in terms of air vehicles. It could serve the role of a scout, or simply add a bit more fire-power to your faction's efforts. It can essentially perform all the actions of a gunship, but to a much lesser extent.

Nanite Systems Valkyrie



This is the recently announced Valkyrie. Instead of the 4 seats is has been said to have, this will have 6. The reason being that pilots of this aircraft need to feel that they are deploying a significant amount of people, when deploying all the players in the rumble seats. This ensures that it won't become an aircraft that is ditched by players (pilot included) upon deployment. It also makes it worthwhile for pilots to dedicate themselves to.

This aircraft will have one pilot, a gunner, and four rumble seats. The gunner will have access to the same range of weapons as the Liberator tail-gunner. It will come with below-radar by default, and the option of getting multiple flares, just like the Empire Specific Gunships. For the purpose of stealth, it should also have the unique attribute of being unable to detect on radar. It does not have a cloaking module, however, and should instead have to rely on the pilot's ability to deploy its soldier unnoticed, or rely on friendly aircraft for escort.

Its role should should be two-fold. It should first and foremost focus on troop transportation; meaning that it shouldn't be able to rival the Empire Specific Gunships, or even the Sentry. It should be a useful vehicle, even for larger outfits, who might want to use intricate tactics of deploying smaller groups around an area. It should, however, also be a relatively decent close-air support - at least briefly. Upon dropping off its 4-person payload, it should be able to provide them with temporary air-support to allow them to get settled.

Overall balance

There will of course be need for quite a few changes to accommodate for these new vehicles. Certain weapons would need to be tweaked, but two significant changes that would have to be made (that I can think of) would be:

A nerf to the Liberator's ability to use its belly-gun against aircraft. An overall weakening of its flight-model, such that the tail-gun becomes its primary aircraft-deterrent

A reduction in the prevalence of MAX units. Whenever people talk about air-ground balance, the MAX unit is mentioned. MAXs are too powerful in the sense that they can easily take cover indoors, and are small in size compared to vehicle-based AA. My suggestion would be to limit the spawning of MAXs to two places: The warp-gate, and tech-plants. Nowhere else. This will make the MAX unit into what it really should be: an asset. As it stands right now, it's a panic tactic that people will use when things aren't going their way. And due to the fact that they are always present in battles, the developers have to balance for that. Players need to be ready for MAX units at all times. If MAXs were instead units that had to be transported, or was only to be expected in high numbers at tech-plants, then players can adjust their tactics temporarily.

The claims that ESFs have no affect on larger battles are bogus. ESFs are the best AA in the game, and an organized squad of ESF pilots can keep libs and gals away from the action. Unfortunately, that requires teamwork and coordination with the ground(to take out AA when possible), which I realize is against the all to common Rambo mindset, but it's there and it's effective.

Simply put, a platoon with Gals and Libs can wreak havoc on ground forces, but they don't stand a chance against a handful of experienced and organized ESF pilots. And not only that, ESFs are the fastest way to get rid of sunderers. A few dive bombs with rocketpods can end the battle right there.

There is no need to change things drastically based upon a misconception from solo pilots and ground pounders.

By that logic, it translates to "air is OP, thankfully air counters air"...
Which is half true since the effect of a Liberator on a 12-24 fight is far, far superior than the effect of a Liberator on a 48+ fight.


A problem that air has is that the less air you have, the weaker it gets; because you get focused by AA much more easily when you're alone in the sky. Unless you've got some air zerg following you, some big battles are entirely devoid of air, because, well, there aren't enough aircraft to share the flak.

That's certainly my ESF experience as someone who flies solo 80% of the time. It's quite frustrating to say the least.

I definitely agree with that. Flying solo is so different from flying with people because of this, which is why I always run AB tanks when I fly solo.

Wait wait wait you want to take away the unique esf fighting mechanic from me? Pffft tell you what, just make Libs be less versatile with few MINOR tweaks and esfs will get its place back in grand scheme of things. And no i don't say they don't have its role right now but when you can take more endurable almost as fast and agile plus platform that's got way way more punch and versatility for the same cert investment cost then there is no choice really.

Yep, they currently are the best AA in the game, because ground-based AA is primarily used as deterrent. That said, given the number of players you have in this game, entering a large battle is a death sentence for any ESF pilot. The only thing that poses a real threat to an ESF, is another ESF, because it can actually keep up with it.

As for your point on organized squads of ESFs, sure. If you get enough people together, sure you can make a difference, but that's not my point at all. Vehicles in this game should not have to be blocked by an arbitrary wall of 'teamwork' just to be functional. That doesn't mean that working together shouldn't benefit you greatly, what I'm saying though, is that any player, regardless of whether he is in a squad or not, should be able to look at a battle and say to himself "I think that if I hopped into 'Vehicle X', I could really help out my team." or perhaps more realistically "If I hopped into 'Vehicle X', I could really do some work, because there is an absence of them in this battle". People do this with MBTs, Lightnings, and Harassers all the time, but not with ESFs.

When I was playing BF3, there was always an attack helicopter present. I flew them a lot, and I often found that my success was determined by how well my team was doing on the ground. Therfore, I found myself behaving in accordance with what I thought would help my team gain the upper hand, and this was purely out of self-interest. This is the kind of mindset A2G pilots need to have in Planetside 2, but when I play, I see none of it. You need to create a balance where self-interest translates into teamwork. That's the whole point of the flight-model of the gunship.

I don't know what you're talking about, I help my team quite a bit when I'm by myself. It depends on the role you want to play. ESFs are great at farming infantry, and anyone in an ESF can do that solo and have great success. You can pull a ganking or a dogfighting ESF, which is the counter to that(and an important one at that). Or you can just hit and run tanks and sunderers, which is definitely helpful.

I have greatly helped my team in more ways than they know. Just last night I was running an AH and thermals on my Reaver and I found a group of engineers that were attempting to flank our armor with AV turrets. Naturally they didn't stand a chance against me, but they would have no doubt taken out a good chunk of our armor and possibly stopped our push right there. And I can't count the number of times I've killed snipers that were picking off our infantry from a mountain top, and LAs that were getting ready to detonate the C4 they just placed on our sunderer.

I know all of this is anecdotal, but it's the stuff that people don't see because I'm all over the place, usually where they aren't paying attention. I see other pilots doing this as well, I'm not really sure what you are see people doing out there.

To best understand where I am coming from, you need to put yourself into the shoes of someone who has never played the game and has only just entered an ESF, and what the game tells you as a new player. In other words, I'm talking about changing the mentality of the zerg in relation to air.

One of the first things you notice is that the ESF is fast, and by comparing the speed of the ESF to that of much slower ground-vehicles, you quickly realize that you do not depend on them to survive. If they are doing well in a battle, you can farm better, but your choice to help is very one-sided, in the sense you feel benevolent when you do choose to help out. It's not because you have to.

If you compare this mindset to that of an engineer in the midst of an armor-heavy battle, it is very apparent that to contribute the most, you should repair your friendly tanks, rather than grab your own. Or perhaps you're already in a tank, and there is a Sunderer reinforcing your frontline, in this case you may choose to protect that Sunderer, rather than push forward. This type of logic - which ultimately creates a synergy between different types of troops and vehicles - does not exist with regards to the ESF.

If SOE had given us a gunship and F-35-esque jet to begin with, I think the air-game would've been perfectly synergistic with the ground-game by now. If you do the same thing, and look at it from a new player's perspective flying a gunship, your survival is determined by both ground troops and jets. Yes, you can outrun everything on the ground, but you are nowhere near as fast as an ESF. And since you're also much slower, the strength of your front-line also determines how much time you have to spend every time you retreat to recover. It shouldn't take long for new pilots in a gunship to realize that by helping ground troops, you help yourself - a lot.

You have to realize that just because you and some other experienced players act this way, doesn't mean that everyone does. The game instead needs to have an overall balance where doing these types of actions are a given, rather than players having to go out of their way to do them.

It's bit random and offtopic but since i know the artist and you didn't point to the source..

First drawing by "ACS" is by Shimmering Sword. If you got the dow then he'll draw almost anything as long as it's sort of military related regardless of how rediculous the concept is. Pony headed camels with prowler turrets for humps? he'll do it as long as you pay up front. http://shimmering-sword.deviantart.com/

I'm not sure this is what needed to solve the current state of G2A and A2G gameplay. Right now A2G feels far to prominent and problematic a thing on the ground when it happens... and likewise, as soon as somebody pulls a serious counter to air it becomes a issue for anybody trying to fly in the area.

I've personaly been considering making G2A and A2G just that much deadlier, Daltons will one-shot tanks and Zephyrs will wipe the floor with a large chunk of ground troops and flak will kill aircraft in a few hits. The big difference to change it up is rate of fire. Keep it all single-round shots with moderate-to-long reload times and low munitions supplies for Liberators and ESF - a tool you need to actualy put to tactical use rather than being able to be spamable, but when you use it wisely it will tip the balance by wiping out enemy Sunderers, MBT's half a platoon's worth of clustered enemies and so forth. Likewise G2A is slow-firing flak cannon rather than our current chain-firing monstrosity. Reward accuracy by severaly damaging aircraft close to the center of the flak detonation, leave it a deterent in that it explodes over a wide area and generaly don't do much outside the narrow center explosion area.

That's just a lot of musing on my part, though.

My apologies. I did write in my draft that I needed to give the artist credit, but I completely forgot to add his name.

No I don't; read the first line I highlighted. "ESFs belong in Planetside 2, just not on the continents". I've simply come to believe that the ESF and the continents affect each other negatively, in the sense that ESFs limit the potential for a balance combined-arms gameplay on the continents, but also that the type of combat that exists on the continents limits the ESFs.

SOE have stumbled across a great flight-model with the ESF, but if they want to realize its true potential they need to remove it from the combined arms aspect of the game. Dogfighting in an ESF is amazing, attacking ground is mind-numbingly boring. That's my opinion, and I'd love to hear why you think that A2G in an ESF is a fantastic experience - if that is the case of course.

Anyway, I think what SOE ought to do is to take the ESF, which I think is a near-perfect aircraft for arena-combat, and put it into that type of format. In other words, they should make some form of aerial battle-arena in the sky. The arenas could easily be made to affect what happens on the continents themselves. For example, you could have one of these arenas over every zone, or region on the continents, and whoever controls that arena would have exclusive access to drop-pods, or orbital strikes, or whatever you can think of.

In this format, the ESF can be balanced in isolation. You could remove things such as easy-to-use lock-ons, and un-nerf the reverse maneuver. The reason that SOE have been nerfing this vehicle, is because it is first and foremost and A2A-oriented aircraft, but many players have refrained from engaging in A2A, partly due to the high-skill cap, but also due to the comparatively easy A2G.

I think that if you keep insisting that the ESFs belong on the continents, you're going to watch its flight-model keep devolving as SOE desperately try and strike a balance between ground and air.

I don't use my esfs to attack ground targets, sure i'll try to roadkill annoying burster maxes, heavy's or pilots that bailed out but to actually shoot at ground... Anyways to say that esfs don't belong in combined arms is just horrible. My favorite vehicle in game may lost its role as air superiority tool (and yes sure esfs can fight air but are not top dogs in it) and i really don't think they gonna get its rightful place anytime soon.

SOE needs to have one dominating vehicle at all times so people that can afford to spend money actually do so and get some kind of reward for it. That's perfectly fine by me, ill just hold on to my 3 air dominance certed out esf's. If things get sorted out great if not hell i'm sure there will be other game that's gonna try and copy that dogfighting mechanic.

Oh and btw to all hur dur 3 man crew people i say yeah that's why bomber airplanes escort fighter jets in to enemy territory. Yep you read that right bombers escort fighter jets not the other way around.

You can't have an aircraft that is as versatile as the ESF. People who enter one don't understand what role they are supposed to fill, because the aircraft roles have no been solidified. My opinion of what makes an attack-oriented aircraft conducive to combined arms combat is:

• Type 1: Does not rely on ground troops to be successful. However, at the same time, it cannot have a direct impact on the ground battles. Its role is A2A, which ultimately gives it a very influential, yet indirect impact on ground troops, because it clears the air-space for other types of aircraft.
  • Empire Specific: Air Superiority Fighter
• Type 2: Relies heavily on the performance of ground troops. It is very strong against ground, but is relatively slow, and can therefore quickly find itself out of its depth by over-extending. Therefore, it has to pace itself in accordance with the progress of friendly ground troops. This dependency ensures that it is very much in the interest of the pilot of this A2G aircraft to help friendly ground troops. This aircraft also has the capacity to attack air, and it is the one that the Type 1 aircraft has to prioritize to both kill and defend.
  • Empire Specific: Gunship
  • Nanite Systems: Sentry
• Type 3: This aircraft relies somewhat on ground troops, but most of its success is determined by the Type 2 aircraft. The Type 3 is an asset; a heavy-hitter that needs escort and protection. It relies heavily on Type 2 aircraft for protection when it comes to ground-based AA, but relies on both Type 2 and Type 1, when it comes to protection from other aerial threats. This Type 3 aircraft can determine the success of the Type 2 aircraft by killing off ground based threats, but also has the ability to help fight off enemy Type 2 aircraft.
  • Nanite Systems: Liberator

This is the type of air-balance that Planetside 2 needs to be successful. I don't think you can rely on anecdotes of what you do personally, or even what organized squads do. My point is that SOE needs to create a balance, where it makes sense for the zerg to use aircraft in the way that I have described above. And the only way you can do that, is by nerfing the ESF and creating a new type of A2G aircraft.

I got all that from your first post but your talking about whole air overhaul and that ain't gonna happen (never).

You want rocketpods on your esf? Sure you can but you lose agility and speed on it (i'd personally make them reach less altitude but shhh i'm gonna get death threats for that), reason? You carry more load.

That way you have Type 1 air superiority fighter that's light fast agile and A2A specialized. And Type 2 from the same platform, If you want to attack ground with different loadout. Players get versatility and SOE doesnt have to pay money back to all people that actually bought weapons.

I don't even want to try and discus the whole lib thing....

That was a solution I considered, but two things would have to happen. The agile ESF would still need its flight model tweaked, since it's the source of all problems between air and ground. It can do too much, and therefore it has no role in the game. This also applies somewhat to the flight-model of the Liberator, which is just a heavier ESF flight-model. As for the heavier A2G version, it would have to have 2 seats, as having more eyes would increase its survivability.

I thing that the whole concept is too deep and opens too much possible problems. I also quite disagree that ESF ATG is meaningless.
ESF ATG is really strong if you are from the receiving side. ESF ATG is the main reason why players in ESF does not prefer to escort their dedicated ATG vehicles called Liberators while they can farm the peasants alone.
Short and simple trick would be if the lolpods work only versus infantry. This would shift ESFs more to where they should belong- in air.

I didn't really write this post, trying to argue that certain vehicles are too strong or too weak. I am simply trying to outline the type of characteristics that I believe that aircraft in Planetside 2 ought to have, in order to encourage people to use them in a specific way. No matter how well you "balance" the ESF, it will always have an inherent incentive NOT to play as you would want an A2G, close-air support aircraft to play. Its speed, acceleration, and hover-mechanics make it a lone-wolf aircraft, which requires people to consciously make the choice to support their team - and even when they do support their team, it's a one-way type of support. In other words, the ESF isn't helped by the ground in return; there is no inter-dependence.

Also, if you somehow manage to make ESF pilots engage almost exclusively in air to air, you're still stuck with the fact that the Liberator doesn't really fit the role of a close-air support. The Liberator is designed to be a bomber; extremely lethal if left to its own devices. I don't know about you, but to me this characteristic means that it the Liberator should be treated as an asset. It should not be the go-to air-to-ground. Instead it should be the goal for all other types of air to make room for. In other words, once your A2A fighters have gained dominance, the Empire Specific Gunships and NS Sentry can start to take hold, and once they have established themselves, then the Liberator can come in and do some real damage. Of course it would never be as clear-cut as I just explained, but that is the general gist of how I view the "ideal" state of air-ground-balance.