C4 - Overused and needs to be toned down

Because unlike a sunderer you aren't meant to stop a tank somewhere and just chill with no gunners. It's like saying I wish my infantry gun would have an option to shoot guys behind me when I stop bothering to turn my view or move.

No, it was a very good reason.

1.) The counter to someone mindlessly shelling infantry with HEAT/HE is C4.
2.) The only people who would take said defense slot are people who regularly die from C4 and can't defend themselves otherwise (i.e. bad player).

So the only people who would take this slot are people that are bad and are farming infantry, thus giving them immunity to their hard counter, thus making their gameplay style one with few counters, little skill requirement, and massive reward.

_b

C4 does not need nerf...

Reason? 100 Inf per C4 brick for a suicide run, disappear on death, takes 2-4s to actually place n blow up.

Rockets need a nerf...

Reason? Free, resupplied through ammo pack, can ohk infantry. Did I mention Free n can be resupplied through ammo pack? Fires instantly, does damage instantly.

Do I win the interwebs now?

Lets forget all the reasons that have already been addressed. I'm still waiting for a logical game play reason why 1 weapon is so special that it doesn't have an option to defend against it.

Infantry? Smalls arms fire or explosion resistance.
MAX? Small arms or explosions.
Sunderers? Blockade, protection all quadrants.
Aircraft? Composite.
Harassers? Protection all quadrants. Composite gives C4 defense.

Tanks. Choose Front side or top. No rear option. If you choose Top though, it won't actually protect against C4 dropped on top of you although mysteriously a buggy with paper thin armor gets that option.

200 resources. Well gee. I can kill vehicles with a whole TWO tank mines just like C4, and they only cost 50 resources less, and there's a defense option for those! Sometimes they don't even render properly when they fall through rocks and become invisible to the naked eye making them even more annoying!

But I'm in a tank. I should be constantly swiveling my turret, as should my gunner, concentrating on looking for guys that can literally drop in from anywhere. I should be taking proximity radar, forgoing all other defense. I should never use my faction specific tank feature, because doing so is tantamount to suicide. I should be focused on watching the ground around me 24/7 for anyone who manages to run through so I can shoot him and kill 3 or 4 friendlies too, or run over engineers repairing me as I back away. But I should also be focused on the air, so those pesky guys flying forever with drifter jets don't toss 2 bricks at me while dealing with everything else going on. I most definitely shouldn't be focused on engaging enemy armor.

Giving a defensive slot the capacity to defend against C4 is effectively giving that vehicle immunity to C4 (as nobody but an Engineer with the suit slot will have more than 2), which is a reason in and of itself to not include it. C4 kills 10% of tanks and 100% of those tanks deserved to die.

I can't think of a single time that I've lost my tank to C4 that wasn't my fault, and I've never seen a time where it wasn't the tanker's own fault. I don't see any good reason to add it to the game, but I've already described why it is a bad addition to the game.

Aircraft? AV turrets that shoot forever? Other tanks? Tons of infantry AV, including guided missiles that can be fired from complete safety? Those are all counters too. And they have a defense.

Again, you keep trying to use this argument. Is it a bad player who takes frontal armor and hides next to a hill, popping out, taking a few shots, then backing behind it? Prowlers don't get mag boosters. They don't get a super duper special shield. they get a /suicide ability. A C4 defense option is a very valid defense slot in pitched battles where you and your gunner cannot focus 360 degrees all the time.

It's like Mine Guard. The only people taking it are people too bad to see mines. It still exists.

C4 is overpowered, but an armour option that makes it weaker is bad design. It's frustrating for the C4 user (because this vehicle is arbitrarily immune to their weapon) and it's bad for the vehicle driver (who has to choose between an actual interesting option and the option that makes them not instantly die in a niche scenario).

It just needs to be nerfed. The old tank mines were stupid, where you'd run to a vehicle and drop them under (or on) them and they'd explode with no counter past hoping an engineer doesn't slip by in the heat of battle, and C4 is, if anything, even dumber.

While I agree, tank mines serve a completely different role than C4 and are used in different situations.

I'm really having a hard time understanding why you guys are dying from C4 so frequently to where you deem it overpowered.

2 C4 will only set a non blockade sundy on fire. Seems fair enough.

Prox radar on tanks was moved to the defense slot, which is better IMHO, so that the tanks don't have to give up their empire ability. And it's really effective.

Heavy assaults shouldn't need more AV than their rocket launcher and could stand to lose their C4. Medics could lose their C4 in favor of getting prox mines, it seems more suited to their support/watch everyone's back role.

No, but its incredibly frustrating when it does. Especially when you're supporting infantry who are around you and let the guy through. I'd be fine with it if 5 vanguards used voice to coordinate my tank and light me up with 5 AP shells and frag me almost instantly. That would be impressive teamwork. I'm even fine with the Phoenix guys hiding who knows where shooting me. I can hear those. I'm not quite as fine with the AV turrets shooting from 800m away, but at least I get a directional indicator and can try to break line of sight.

There's no indicator for C4 like a grenade being tossed. No sound. You can deploy 2 before hitting the trigger and doing 100% damage in 1 shot. I don't have 360 degree vision. Sure I can sacrifice all defense for prox radar. I might not even have a problem with it if ALL friendlies can see it, like some other vehicles, instead of just myself and my gunner. I already gave up on my faction specific ability since its about as effective as cutting your own wrists.

I'd be fine if C4 remained after death if it meant you could only toss 1 before hitting the button, and placing the next one removed the old one.

Better yet, and sure to infuriate the "l33+ dewds" let c4 stay. Just give every faction a very distinct jump pack sound and make it very loud.

If not for C4, what would people you just killed with a station turret do after swapping to your faction, shoot the turret?
C4 is the option of choice for revenge TKs.

And those few times when it does kill you aren't your fault?

I don't really know why someone would think one infantry getting close to a vehicle should result in that infantry being able to instantly kill that vehicle. That doesn't seem like great gameplay to me. Mysteries of our times, I suppose.

They did have a bang sound for a while, the forum threads about the class being useless still have the evidence.

My only issue with it is when people bail out of a tank I'm about to kill and run at me with C4.

Seriously, I just won the fight. that should be the end of it. I really don't like the idea of tank drivers having AV weapons at all.

Giving a defensive slot the capacity to defend against mines is effectively giving that vehicle immunity to mines (as nobody but an Engineer with the suit slot maxed will have more than 3), which is a reason in and of itself to not include it. Mines kills 10% of tanks and 100% of those tanks deserved to die.

Well if you want to argue like that, every time you die its your fault.