Infiltrator Update is not what we imagined

In that case, that's my misunderstanding. Sorry. I seem to distinctly remember the MAX additions being called the MAX update, but I could be wrong.

You might be correct in regards to the MAX, but that's not what these class updates were implied to be. We should all be very upset with this update if it's to reflect the updates on the other classes that are scheduled, such as the Engineer, Light Assault, Combat Medic, and any others in the future.

What I fear from this update most is that it was their attempt to placate us and their excuse for not fixing our problems will be, "We already finished your update...it's everyone else's turn." If that's the case, it failed...and failed hard.

All this is because the "Infiltrator update" was done just for the sake of having done something about something. The fact that it barely needed any touching is irrelevant for SOEheads.

Yeh I lost all hype for infiltrator update everything is just a let down.

Nah, the other classes will get good updates with a couple tools... LAs will probably get Dual wielding secondaries (because -That- wont be a nightmare to balance), Engineers will get shields like they have asked for since the start and probably a new turret, the Medic will get a multi-heal tool... And the infiltrator will Maybe get some more things as time goes on, but it'll be a solid year before anything meaningful materializes that gives us anything over other classes. Oh, and our cloak, the one that doesn't reliably allow you to get an enhanced cloak if you kneel? Yeah that will get fixed sometime around the same time as the Decoy grenade (read: Never).

The infil, exists in this bastardized state, where it's ability could be REALLY GOOD... but arguably not good enough to justify the changes always heaped on it.

I was -really- looking forward to stalker, but apparently the point of stalker is to not be cloaked, as that gives you a faster recharge. If that is the case... well, there is yet Another reason to just stick to hunter.

I'm going to use the motion sensor, I'm going to buy the X-bow with certs, I am not going to get the new rifle I'm just going to use the straight pull bolt and get myself an SR-7 (Which, btw does NOT need to have a Straight pull bolt, but w/e at this point), and I am not going to use Stalker... Which really bothers me, because I was -REALLY- looking forward to using the stalker for Scouting. I didn't want to use it for engagements I wanted to use it, to be a scout. I can't do that now, because movement being what it is, I have Absolutely no chance of closing distances or getting away from people using the stalker. So Once I am spotted I am dead... and this is a cloak that in the original game, was Invisible, truly invisible... and... Grah... Everytime I think about it, it just makes me want to rant.

I suggested Uzis for the Light Assault to duel wield HERE. While I initially planned to suggest this concept for the Nanite Systems SMG they want to implement, I figured that if the development team are going to give duel wielding to the Light Assaults...I'd suggest it there first as a class specific weapon. I think the mechanics involved, duel wielding and an inability to equip scopes, make it unique enough in comparison to the SMG. No idea if they'll like the idea though...still waiting on feedback.

I have no idea man, I'm very disappointing by all of this. Truthfully, it's not just disappointment in the failure with this update...but future updates. I want everyone to have one hell of a class update, something that fully fleshes them out, gives them a defined role, and provides an abundance of weapons and tools to get the job done. I'm very disappointed in our update, but I'm pretty disillusioned towards the updates of the future for everyone else as well.

Agreed.

Agreed, and painfully so. I was looking forward to some fun melee play...instead, this update ensures that I'll be at maximum range with my Parallax all the time.

I'll be getting the pull-bolt and maybe the motion sensor.

What I wanted out of Stalker was that melee play I've been dreaming of...sadly, I don't see that ever coming to be now. Such disappointment.

We may be getting half-way decent melee play in the melee update next month...

This is my thing though, the guns: The guns were originally supposed to be this other... thing that was tacked on. I recall that from last year, the interviews were: "We're going to give X and Y and Z... and there will be a couple new guns."

Motion sensor is good
The suggestion I've seen a hundred times about personal diffusers or silent spotting... that would be Huge to infils, adrenaline pump I don't see getting used.
Stalker... ugh
But thank god, because we have 7 new guns! 7. I just want to keep saying that, 7. New SMG, NS Rifle, 3 class guns, X-bow, 2 specialty x-bows. And of the guns, while they are well balanced... Which I suppose is something that time should be spent on, and they do provide Alternatives to people (They aren't more powerful, they are sidegrades which people can choose, which I appreciate)... 7. To the class that is least played, there are More weapons to bolster the aspect of the class which people don't use, and is the primary reason it's the least played.

• If you want to scout, you walk into a room invisible and then your character shouts at the top of their lungs: "ENEMY SPOTTED" so that everyone knows you are there.
• Your stalker now lasts 8 seconds at a sprint and recharges FASTER while uncloaked, so that says to me I should be using the cloak (that may I stress, is supposed to be a cloak focused around being indefinetely cloaked) only sometimes and leaving it off most of the time to recharge. If I get into a situation where I am trying to get away I can run but a shorter distance than the hunter cloak before I am exposed, and when cloaked I am just as visible as I would be with the hunter.
• You have no reason to use, albeit upgraded, x-bow recon bolts... because while I can upgrade mine to scan like 20m... I can only fire 3, whereas an engineer can fire... 14?
• I love the darklight, it's just what I wanted there... but now the darklight has as much use as before because I am never going to be invisible enough to justify it's existence, and there IS a level of cloaking that exists that would justify the darklight while making it still visible to higher graphics levels... that isn't being used?

Other than that... our main Teamplay ability is now available... TO EVERYONE. What possible reason do I have, to pitch that my squads use infiltrators anymore? Motion sensors? An ammo pack and a X-bow replaces those. So I need a support engineer, who can lay down 100 times the firepower of an infiltrator. Hell, he can even lay the AP mines, and MORE of them if I recall correctly.

If we had vehicle hacking, or a OHK knife, or our cloak was as invisible at high graphical settings as it was at low... You know that would be fine. But it's like we're getting continuously kicked in the nuts, over things We Can't Do!

I was actually pretty excited about that...but with Darklight, Detect Darts, and the possibility of the IRNV scope not being a bug but an actual feature.....................I'm probably going to be hard pressed to use any of these melee weapons.

Candy, basically.

It's not what you need, but it'll make those eyes sparkle until you get over it.

Yeah, originally I loathed the motion sensor until I learned that cloaked Infiltrators don't show up on it.

Agreed, I've pushed for the personal diffuser for a long...long...time. Give the Light Assault back their Adrenaline Pump and buff it accordingly, give me the ability to actually infiltrate beyond enemy defenses!

Hopefully they change it.

So much candy...when we needed a meal.

Actually saw a cute comic about that.

I predicted that Stalker Cloaking would be implemented as an ambush oriented cloaking device...a campers cloak basically. The first version tossed up onto the test server left me pleasantly shocked.......................then they fixed my shock by making it exactly what I feared it would be.

Indeed...

If you've seen my thread, you know I want to toss the roll of recon to the Light Assault and have them fully flesh out hacking for us due to the counterintuitive nature of recon itself. However, if we're stuck with recon...it should be exclusive, just as it should if it was given to the Light Assault instead.

The detection darts should tag people for X seconds and show them in real time on the radar, like the motion sensor. If you miss, it doesn't do anything.

Exactly.

I never minded Darklight as a hard-counter, one of the few times I would EVER say that. However, as the only class with a hard-counter incorporated into the game...where is the justification? We're as visible on medium to ultra without the Darklight cast upon us as we are when it is...and that's just insane.

Indeed...

As of lately, I want to see recon moved to the Light Assault and made exclusive for them though. What I want for us is hacking, I want a very in depth and interesting hacking system that's vital to the course of battle...our new defined role. Then, we won't miss our counterintuitive role of recon.

Exactly.

For me what's more important is that these updates make it into live in at least a mechanically stable state. When people get their hands on them and test them in real-world situations we will see what needs balancing.

The risk is that they buff everything on test without it actually getting the real-world testing it needs, people discover ways to exploit the mechanics to the maximum and the feature turns out to be blatantly overpowered.

I am far happier for SOE to implement changes that are "underpowered" then adjust them up rather than the other way round, especially if it is the case that people are spending real-life money on items based on current performance just to have them nerfed into uselessness (which everyone here knows is a valid concern). I haven't forgotten ZOE, the Striker and the Harrasser.

My quick opinion on the matter:

1. Stalker cloak is too short duration when moving, it should be 20 seconds minimum when moving at normal pace. Sprinting should drain it faster, crouch walking slower or with no drain at all.
2. Sensor darts for the crossbow is not needed for any class apart from the infiltrator - they need a set role in a squad and this basically removes it as others have said.

The problem isn't with what they are implementing, it's with what they are not implementing. Recon issue aside, the problem lies in the fact that this update addresses absolutely nothing that we have been waiting for.

Cloaking issues are not fixed.
Decoy grenades were untouched.
Hacking remains watered down to the point where it's beyond trivial.

- For individuals playing on low settings...they now have to equip Darklight to even stand a chance.
- For individuals playing on medium to ultra settings...they can see us as well without Darklight as they could with it.

This isn't a fix to the cloaking issue...it's a band-aid, and a poor one at that. Ultimately, this update simply pushes everyone into the role of sniping...because none of our actual issues were addressed and atop of that, we had a hard-counter incorporated into the game before there was even justification incorporated to do so.

Hopefully they'll make it good and viable before the patch, otherwise they are overestimating it and this "update" is a big useless letdown.

Even if they do adjust it to where it needs to be, I'm considering this update a huge letdown...and I'm not sure why it went this way. Are we really that loathed amongst the development team...or are they simply not confident that they could get the things we need done in time?

Now i know that you don't have a clue and should be ignored.

doing live balance testing with overpowered/underpowered/broken/completely unwanted weapons was EXACTLY the reason we clamored for, and got the PTS if the FIRST PLACE

They don't want a prevalence of infiltrators around I guess and I understand that. But as the high skill ceilling class it's unlikely, SMG aside. And the stalker cloak would stay true to this, as it's just as visible as the basic cloak afterall.

Yeah I expected more from this, new tools, new ideas, fixes and new abilities moreso than a bunch of not so riveting and unneeded weapons lol.. but bah i'd be happy with a decent cloak

I'm no infiltrator player, I switch to one occasionally to have some fun with smg's or if the engagement range gets stupid. I cannot stand infiltrators, they irritate the crap out of me. Hacking my turrets/terminals, sneaking around in my bases shooting people, sniping me off my engi turrets, and yet, even I can see that SOE really needs to do some work on them.

As was stated earlier in the thread, there really aren't any objectives worth infiltrating for, the infiltrator is really just a sniper/light assault with cloak instead of jetpack. I've always thought they were underpowered, and SOE seems to be taking the infiltrator class update as an opportunity for further nerfs in many ways. As much as I would hate to face more appropriate updates, I really hope they listen to you infiltrators a bit. I do have hopes for the implant system, and maybe even the resource revamp, maybe with those you guys will get more cool toys and perhaps even some worthy base objectives.

I wholeheartedly agree with the OP. Very well said.

This is an extreme disappointment after the absurd amount of time we have all been eagerly waiting. All I wanted was more cloaks, and never cared for the concept of the "Stalker Cloak." Personally, I believe the Stalker Cloak should enable shooting while cloaked, but maybe that's just me.

Anyway, I feel this "update" is simply a guise to shove more new weapons down our throats. It's not really an update at all, IMO. Just adding new weapons to rake in more money. The only aspect I am slightly interested in is the new detection device (whatever it's called). And the whole X-Bow thing was a blatant copy of Battlefield, and is very gimmicky, not to mention takes a major role from the Infiltrator and gives it to every class. Shame on you, SOE.

I share your point of view and btw you forgot to mention the crossbow issue. If the alternative ammo is going to be availabe for everyone this update is going to make us even less useful for our team.

To say it briefly this update is the living proof that:
- Devs do not read the Infiltrators forum.
- Devs' idea about what is an Infiltrator is different from what most of the community thinks.
- They mainly care to introduce new weapons to sell more SC.

And personally after 18 months if they dare to push this update live without fixing our class grenades I swear I will uninstall. 1 year and a half with broken class grenades is freaking unacepptable.

I

I was ignoring the crossbow issue because as much as I hate the sensor bolt, I don't want them to take away the explosive bolt, since that one at least gives me something to do. I've been keeping quite about it generally. It annoys me that other classes will have our ability, but I know that other classes are annoyed we will get AV. Some part of me wants recon darts removed from crossbow but then I feel too selfish asking for us to keep explosive bolts. I am really conflicted on this issue and I'm not completly sure where I stand, so I omitted it from the post.

Because PTS is exactly like a live fire situation. You know how many large fights I've got myself into to test new features?

Anyway, since the only thing you seem capable of saying is, "I'm right and you're wrong", I'm going to ignore you now.

And finally, I've been waiting for you to correct me on how long the Motion Spotter works for this entire conversation. A simple fact that anybody that knew what they were talking about and shouldn't be ignored would have known. Guess that you didn't know that continues to speak on your ability to judge.